Trading with Dealers at Card Shows?

[Snapolit1]

I've never been a trader.

I don't know how you trade without being cognizant of market value (comps).

If my card just sold for $500 last week, and your card sold last month for $300, why would I trade you a $500 card for a $300 card? Wouldn't it make sense to sell my card for around $500 and try to find the other card for around $300. And pocket the rest?

Maybe the comps are stale and unreliable for obscure stuff like Leon references above. Or maybe in thinly sold cards you will do anything to grab something. Or maybe people just want to make a trade for the sake of making a trade because it feels fun. A few people on BST have approached me about trades and it typically goes like this:

My card/photo is for sale for $2000.

Hey would you be interested in any of these?

I look and "these" are worth (based on comps) like $1000.

Nah, not really looking for a trade.

[marcmandel]

For me as a customer, trading cards with other collectors is a big part of the hobby. Also, trading with dealers where it makes sense, and I have done a number of large (6 figure, sometimes) trades at shows with some of my favorite guys with them on the dealer side of the table.

From my perspective a dealer is not generally trading for their own PC, even if they have a PC at all. Many don't collect and just see cards as inventory which if I were them, I'd agree and understand entirely.

Assuming this, the best trades for my dealer friends and for me was an understanding that the trade balance/imbalance comes down to liquidity of the cards I'm offering in trade. Highly liquid cards are often seen as cash equivalents and will obviously trade at nearer to true market value than less liquid product that a dealer will have to haul from show to show for months or more and not allow them to recoup their money.

One dealer in particular, my dear friend Ashish Jain for example once told me that he sees great cards as cash equivalents and that he can make money on those great cards in either a trade up or a trade down scenario at a fair price. Not me gouging him nor him generally gouging me. Fair- a win-win in many ways.

I think trading is both fun and a key part of the card experience, again, it all coming down to the question of liquidity and being the "right cards" for the particular dealer you may be looking to trade with.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by marcmandel

For me as a customer, trading cards with other collectors is a big part of the hobby. Also, trading with dealers where it makes sense, and I have done a number of large (6 figure, sometimes) trades at shows with some of my favorite guys with them on the dealer side of the table.

From my perspective a dealer is not generally trading for their own PC, even if they have a PC at all. Many don't collect and just see cards as inventory which if I were them, I'd agree and understand entirely.

Assuming this, the best trades for my dealer friends and for me was an understanding that the trade balance/imbalance comes down to liquidity of the cards I'm offering in trade. Highly liquid cards are often seen as cash equivalents and will obviously trade at nearer to true market value than less liquid product that a dealer will have to haul from show to show for months or more and not allow them to recoup their money.

One dealer in particular, my dear friend Ashish Jain for example once told me that he sees great cards as cash equivalents and that he can make money on those great cards in either a trade up or a trade down scenario at a fair price. Not me gouging him nor him generally gouging me. Fair- a win-win in many ways.

I think trading is both fun and a key part of the card experience, again, it all coming down to the question of liquidity and being the "right cards" for the particular dealer you may be looking to trade with.

I enjoy giving Ashsh 95% of all my business at cards shows. I even worked out a trade with him for a "sought after" dandee Mantle that was on my last nerve. Was in and out of the Burbank show in 45 minutes yesterday with a "Big" Card...and no waiting in line at "Beckett" to get the broken slab reholdered. It was worth the $500 hit. He will sell it in a minute. I also had to throw in a chunk of cash, for an old B & W card with low eye appeal & low pops. The Mantle was a boil on my ass for 3 months like no other card and deal I ever made. It was like an old car that keeps breaking down...couldn't wait to get rid of it.

2nd show in a year (Last Burbank show was my first in 32 years.) Also my first "trade" in 35 years.

[JollyElm]

I'm very late to the party, but thought I'd chime in since there's a show tomorrow and I've been thinking about this exact situation.

I assume most of this has been covered, so pardon me if I’m repeating anyone else’s thoughts.

The few times I was able to secure decent trades at shows was the result of a few things, namely:

1. Work the room and get chatting. Find personable dealers who enjoy interacting with collectors. These are the guys who are usually most open to talking about trades.

2. You have to know (and more importantly, accept) that there is no way in high heck you can expect to get an even swap. Dealers are trying to make money, so you have to know the negotiations won't be like dealing with a fellow collector where you both get the 'same' value back. They want to sell and make a profit at the show (and the shows that follow). They need to get the (way) better end of any deal.

3. Taking #2 into account, you have to offer them (great) cards that are pretty liquid, ones they know they could 'easily' sell at this show or the next. You have to avoid offering anything that would basically become 'dead inventory' on their table. They have no use for that stuff.

4. Find great (and easily sellable) cards of yours that are worth a heckuva lot more than what you paid for them originally. For instance, say you have a Mantle you picked up a long while back for a fraction of what it is worth now. If you're looking to land (without spending money on) a sweet card you really want that is currently worth less than your Mick, then you would be more apt to swap it at a 'loss,' since you wouldn't actually be losing value considering what you paid for it. That sort of purchase timing is really the heart of the matter. Because, pretend instead that you recently bought that very Mantle and paid a pretty penny for it. If that were the case, there’s no way in heck you’d want to trade it at a significant loss. Same exact card, but completely different ways to look at its specific monetary value to you personally.

And yes, tomorrow I'll probably be doing all of this, but will come home without any trades made. It's the nature of the beast, but you gotta give it a go.

[Leon]

At the end of the day a deal is only good if both parties are happy. (Well, that's the way it's supposed to be, anyway.)

Originally Posted by JollyElm

I'm very late to the party, but thought I'd chime in since there's a show tomorrow and I've been thinking about this exact situation.

I assume most of this has been covered, so pardon me if I’m repeating anyone else’s thoughts.

The few times I was able to secure decent trades at shows was the result of a few things, namely:

1. Work the room and get chatting. Find personable dealers who enjoy interacting with collectors. These are the guys who are usually most open to talking about trades.

2. You have to know (and more importantly, accept) that there is no way in high heck you can expect to get an even swap. Dealers are trying to make money, so you have to know the negotiations won't be like dealing with a fellow collector where you both get the 'same' value back. They want to sell and make a profit at the show (and the shows that follow). They need to get the (way) better end of any deal.

3. Taking #2 into account, you have to offer them (great) cards that are pretty liquid, ones they know they could 'easily' sell at this show or the next. You have to avoid offering anything that would basically become 'dead inventory' on their table. They have no use for that stuff.

4. Find great (and easily sellable) cards of yours that are worth a heckuva lot more than what you paid for them originally. For instance, say you have a Mantle you picked up a long while back for a fraction of what it is worth now. If you're looking to land (without spending money on) a sweet card you really want that is currently worth less than your Mick, then you would be more apt to swap it at a 'loss,' since you wouldn't actually be losing value considering what you paid for it. That sort of purchase timing is really the heart of the matter. Because, pretend instead that you recently bought that very Mantle and paid a pretty penny for it. If that were the case, there’s no way in heck you’d want to trade it at a significant loss. Same exact card, but completely different ways to look at its specific monetary value to you personally.

And yes, tomorrow I'll probably be doing all of this, but will come home without any trades made. It's the nature of the beast, but you gotta give it a go.

[Exhibitman]

It is all well and fine to theorize about selling a card to fund a buy but that doesn’t apply at a show unless you sell beforehand. Also, Some attendees have little cash but have cards so they only get new items if they trade.

[Leon]

Nowadays, my buys are being paid for by giving consignments. I feel like somehwere in there I am losing ..

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

It is all well and fine to theorize about selling a card to fund a buy but that doesn’t apply at a show unless you sell beforehand. Also, Some attendees have little cash but have cards so they only get new items if they trade.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

It is all well and fine to theorize about selling a card to fund a buy but that doesn’t apply at a show unless you sell beforehand. Also, Some attendees have little cash but have cards so they only get new items if they trade.

Or you could do what I've sometimes stupidly done, go to shows with not a ton of cash, but Venmo & Paypal and find dealers who will accept that. Then after I've run myself into some good debt, I have to come home and sell to pay it off.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

2. You have to know (and more importantly, accept) that there is no way in high heck you can expect to get an even swap. Dealers are trying to make money, so you have to know the negotiations won't be like dealing with a fellow collector where you both get the 'same' value back. They want to sell and make a profit at the show (and the shows that follow). They need to get the (way) better end of any deal.

True. Among the things I traded away this past year in deals with dealers at shows and at shops were a Chrome Ohtani RC PSA 10, and a Trout Update PSA 9. I cringe to think of the actual percentage value I was given on them in trade, but I didn't care. I wanted vintage and came away with Mantle and Mays cards, so it was worth it to me.

[refz]

I still to this day have success at shows and here, FB etc trading. Doesn’t hurt to ask. I know who I can trade with and cannot and sometimes it sparks a new friendship. These are trading cards right? Not flipping cards?

I’m usually all for trading unless I need the $ for an extreme certain reason.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I've never been a trader.

I have always preferred trading and do it very regularly.

I don't know how you trade without being cognizant of market value (comps).

With a dealer that is important. If you really only care about collecting cards many times actual value doesn't matter. I have made countless trades that one persons items are worth WAY more than the others and still both people are extremely happy with the trade.

If my card just sold for $500 last week, and your card sold last month for $300, why would I trade you a $500 card for a $300 card? Wouldn't it make sense to sell my card for around $500 and try to find the other card for around $300. And pocket the rest?

Maybe but if your card actually sold for $500 how much do you think you will really receive after selling fees. So in many cases a persons time of selling something is worth more than the actual extra cash you will end up saving.

Maybe the comps are stale and unreliable for obscure stuff like Leon references above. Or maybe in thinly sold cards you will do anything to grab something. Or maybe people just want to make a trade for the sake of making a trade because it feels fun. A few people on BST have approached me about trades and it typically goes like this:

My card/photo is for sale for $2000.

Hey would you be interested in any of these?

I look and "these" are worth (based on comps) like $1000.

Nah, not really looking for a trade.

Trades usually only work with those that want/like to trade and we are few and far between. We all know the guy that is always offering stuff for trade. Then when you contact them they want a T206 Wagner and a kidney for their beat up Gregg Jeffries rookie.

[Leon]

I wish I had a dime for all of the times I was offered junk for gold!

and a random card....
.

Originally Posted by bnorth

Trades usually only work with those that want/like to trade and we are few and far between. We all know the guy that is always offering stuff for trade. Then when you contact them they want a T206 Wagner and a kidney for their beat up Gregg Jeffries rookie.