T206 Shaq shaughnessy

[rjackson44]

Why is this card so expensive,was offered a beat up one $500. 😳😳

[rsdill2]

It's a southern leaguer, and generally understood to be on the lower end of populations among southern leaguers. He has Notre Dame roots, football roots, and it's an interesting portrait to say the least all of which it expands its desirability.

[nineunder71]

Coolest hair wins, and the long crazy name helps, and…..

Random Factoid: After his T206 years, Shag went on to be the manager of the Ottawa Senators hockey team

[Leon]

A different Shag....and one that costs more than his T206...

[rjackson44]

Jesus leon terrific

[mybuddyinc]

I don't think this matter much in his popularity, but:

He was also the president of the International League for many years. To extend the season, he came up with the 1v4 / 2v3 playoff system. Quite revolutionary, if you thing about it: As almost every sport from professional down to little league tee ball now uses it ..............

[MVSNYC]

It was discussed on here many years ago...a collector (I think it was Bill Huggins of Huggins & Scott?) was hoarding them, similar to what we saw a few months ago on Evans. They cornered the market and they became very tough to find and when they came up for sale, cost a lot to secure one.

Can anyone else confirm what I'm saying? Was it Bill?

[Cory]

I think it's a combination of all of the above - he is a southern leaguer, so a lower population than most, but he's not a low pop southern leaguer. He has the Notre Dame ties (played both baseball and football there). The cool hair definitely adds to the allure of the card.

Hoarding in the past could add to it - but his card seems widely available - just at higher than every other southern leaguer prices.

I'm told that canadians just love to snatch him up. He is in the Canadian Football Hall of Fame and the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame and the McGill University Sports Hall of Fame.

He introduced the Option play to American football while coaching at Yale & Cornell (whose ties could also increase demand). He coached baseball and football at Clemson, and football at Washington & Lee.

He was the manager of the Ottawa Senators - so hockey ties as well.

So a pretty interesting character with a cool haircut and a lower pop subset.

[rjackson44]

Hi Corey great points thank you ,,ill splurge for one soon I like the card,,this set has so many interesting cards ,,now Corey stop outbidding me ,just kidding love net 54

[MVSNYC]

Hi Cory-

The hoarding was the main driving force that created the (extra) rarity and pricing surge. This was discussed here maybe 7-8 years ago. Maybe someone can find an old thread on it.

[Kawika]

Had a striking look about him.

[Cory]

Here's a thread mentioning Huggins hoarding Shag

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=91063

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Hi Cory-

The hoarding was the main driving force that created the (extra) rarity and pricing surge. This was discussed here maybe 7-8 years ago. Maybe someone can find an old thread on it.

There were a few threads that stated Bill had 25-30 of them. But it would take a lot more than that to have an affect on the price/rarity. Dan M and Ted both said that he was tough for 30 years (back then) but the pop reports show that someone has them somewhere because he is 37th toughest of the 48 southern leaguers in the pop reports. He would be among the most likely for crossovers and re-grades but it still wouldn't put him any tougher than a lot of the other southern leaguers.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...ht=Shaughnessy

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...ht=Shaughnessy

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...ht=Shaughnessy

[ClementeFanOh]

A great looking card (Christoper Walken meets professional baseball??),
multi-sport and multi-country influence. I don't own one and would love
to rectify that. Kind of a Bull Durham feel to him in T206. Trent King

[MVSNYC]

Crazy how times flies...was 2008 when we started discussing that, 16 years ago!

A bunch of people in those threads (including me) referenced Bill (and maybe someone else) hoarding them.

Fun to revisit those old threads...I miss Ted.

[jonvancouver]

Got a good one in my t206 collection.

[IMAXMAX]

T209-2:

[Spike]

Shag was a renaissance man for the sporting world, with appeal to US/CA cross-border fans for his success as Montreal Royals manager, Independent League president, business innovator, Ottawa hockey coach, and sports touchstone at multiple schools, including Yale, Notre Dame, and McGill. Someone with that many collector hooks is destined to be tough to track down! A modern analogue might be rolling Bob Uecker, Tony LaRussa, and Gary Bettman into one guy.

There's an excellent chance the 1936-37 World Wide Gum baseball set, with its heavy emphasis on IL players, exists _because_ Shaughnessy led Montreal to the IL playoffs a year prior, since it would've created a lot of local fan interest.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by jonvancouver

Got a good one in my t206 collection.

Take a look at the bottom left corner and the black frame line. Is this a scanner 'correction' or a real printing defect? Haven't seen a broken border Shag before, would be interesting if there was a recurring defect there.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by G1911

Take a look at the bottom left corner and the black frame line. Is this a scanner 'correction' or a real printing defect? Haven't seen a broken border Shag before, would be interesting if there was a recurring defect there.

There are a couple of different recurring broken border flaws found on Shaughnessy but I've never seen that one before if it is a flaw and not the scan.

There's also a recurring flaw with part of the bottom of team caption missing. The one on the left also has one of the recurring border breaks.

Shaughnessy team print flaw.jpg

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Pat R

There are a couple of different recurring broken border flaws found on Shaughnessy but I've never seen that one before if it is a flaw and not the scan.

There's also a recurring flaw with part of the bottom of team caption missing. The one on the left also has one of the recurring border breaks.

Attachment 609652

Thank you Pat, I did not know about the team caption intrusion on Shag.

I'm not aware of any T206 subject that comes like the SGC 7 from jonvancouver if that is indeed not a scanner thing. Lots of small border breaks but that's an unusual 'wave' type of defect. I am no expert on T206, but there are not many T cards with that type of border defect in the non-sport and pugilist realms.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by G1911

Thank you Pat, I did not know about the team caption intrusion on Shag.

I'm not aware of any T206 subject that comes like the SGC 7 from jonvancouver if that is indeed not a scanner thing. Lots of small border breaks but that's an unusual 'wave' type of defect. I am no expert on T206, but there are not many T cards with that type of border defect in the non-sport and pugilist realms.

There are a few different recurring T206's "wave" type border defects. Steve says that they occur when they attempted to fix a border break.

I actually found one similar to the SGC 7 in one of my folders so it is a defect

Shaughnessy match.jpg


it was probably an attempt to fix this defect

Shaughnessy border break.jpg

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Pat R

There are a few different recurring T206's "wave" type border defects. Steve says that they occur when they attempted to fix a border break.

I actually found one similar to the SGC 7 in one of my folders so it is a defect

it was probably an attempt to fix this defect

That is awesome, a new variant indeed confirmed then. Thank you Pat.

Not to digress too far, but most of the non-baseball border variations work in a different way. This postulation of the wavy fix makes perfect sense to me, I just want to note the different ways these seem to have happened and been fixed. While all the cards were produced by the same associated monopoly groups in the same time, T206 had longer print periods of course. I do hope that one day these subtle clues may all help us put together specific set groupings with shared characteristics that indicate X facility or Y facilities methods.

On most of the non-baseball sets the border defects also show evidence of being 'patched', but in a different way. T218-3 Frank Klaus here attached as an illustrative example, from early 1911. I infer this series was probably a Brett contract, where 1911 T206's probably were not (I think you are on to something with the multiple sub-companies and facilities for T206 theory). Klaus comes several ways, with the top border totally normal, the top border having several small gaps in it (multiple variations here, some with 4, some with 2, this one with 5, etc.), and some with the top border complete but what seems to be the correction made here. Instead of a wavy line, it's patched with vertical marks. Difficult to see without magnification or a very close look, but there are several light vertical marks filling in the gaps. Note that the gaps are in different places than the gap card shown in some parts; there are numerous small differences in where the gaps are, I think I'd need like 100 Klaus' in hand to show everything. This same thing happens at the bottom of the Klaus card as well, with 2 gaps that appear 'filled in'. Klaus is only notable in the extreme amount of different versions; I'm just using this one as an example of a broader pattern I have seen in non-sport and pugilist cards.

The wavy fix is not something I have observed often with the other T cards by the same folks. They exist, but not nearly as many of them.

EDIT: Net54 does not allow high quality images and compresses photos to about ~200kb, but I hope this comes through well enough to convey the difference and message

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Spike

Shag was a renaissance man for the sporting world, with appeal to US/CA cross-border fans for his success as Montreal Royals manager, Independent League president, business innovator, Ottawa hockey coach, and sports touchstone at multiple schools, including Yale, Notre Dame, and McGill. Someone with that many collector hooks is destined to be tough to track down! A modern analogue might be rolling Bob Uecker, Tony LaRussa, and Gary Bettman into one guy.

There's an excellent chance the 1936-37 World Wide Gum baseball set, with its heavy emphasis on IL players, exists _because_ Shaughnessy led Montreal to the IL playoffs a year prior, since it would've created a lot of local fan interest.

And he still has the hair!

[jonvancouver]

Originally Posted by G1911

Take a look at the bottom left corner and the black frame line. Is this a scanner 'correction' or a real printing defect? Haven't seen a broken border Shag before, would be interesting if there was a recurring defect there.

I will check tomorrow morning and send a closer shot!
Offhand I can’t recall but I am fairly certain it’s not a scanner issue.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by jonvancouver

I will check tomorrow morning and send a closer shot!
Offhand I can’t recall but I am fairly certain it’s not a scanner issue.

Pat found another copy of this defect in post 22 to confirm your card is not a scanner issue but indeed a new recurring defect we didn't know about to add to his list. That's pretty cool, thank you for sharing your Shag and finding a new minor variation for the hobby

[T206Collector]

One of the very few Southern Leaguers whose signature is relatively easy to find and affordable.



Signed Index Card, from the Dave Hill collection.

[jonvancouver]

Originally Posted by G1911

Pat found another copy of this defect in post 22 to confirm your card is not a scanner issue but indeed a new recurring defect we didn't know about to add to his list. That's pretty cool, thank you for sharing your Shag and finding a new minor variation for the hobby

Very cool!

[Cory]

Is there a known signed copy of his t206? Or just cut autos?

[rjackson44]

Thank you all for your input wow

[Jay Wolt]

Shag was President of the International League from 1936 to 1960
Here's a 1951 pass I have

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Cory

Is there a known signed copy of his t206? Or just cut autos?

I am not aware of a signed T206 Shaughnessy. Doesn’t mean one doesn’t exist, but in 20 years of collecting T206 player autographs, on card or otherwise, I have never seen one.