2024 Baseball Hall of Fame Tracker

[packs]

I figured Mauer and Posey were going to be tied together in terms of Hall paths but if Mauer gets in first ballot, they might as well put Buster in now and waive the waiting period.

[Seven]

For those posting about Mauer, there seems to be a recent shift in how voters are evaluating catchers. My thoughts are they're giving a little more recognition to peak performance, and things that aren't necessarily measured by statistics. the latter is most prominent in the case of a guy like Yadier Molina, who has become some sort of darling to a lot of the baseball media and fans alike. Many are calling for his eventual Hall of Fame election, despite him putting up only above average statistics for the majority of his career.

In terms of the numbers, a lot of times when it comes to candidacy, I look at a players JAWS. To define it "A player's JAWS is their career WAR averaged with their 7-year peak WAR. Note that only batting or pitching WAR are used in determining the averages at a given position. The current Hall of Famers are then grouped by position and a position average JAWS is computed." While this method is not perfect it allows us to look at a players numbers in comparison to his contemporaries throughout the eras of baseball. When Looking at Mauer's, which I've linked this is what we see

He falls right between Dickey and Berra. This is not a be all, end all, far from it. We know baseball is certainly more than a game of just numbers, many other things factor in. On a personal level ranking the MLB catchers of all time, I have Berra in my top 3. Number wise, however, Mauer tracks. There have certainly been more egregious selections in past years. I wasn't expecting him to get in the first time around, but I'm not upset by it.

[packs]

I don't think that list is really representative of reality though. Bill Dickey caught over 1700 games. Joe Mauer caught less than 1,000. Berra won 3 MVPs. There is so much more separating them from Mauer than JAWS.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

shocked to see he had as many plate appearances as Piazza, his career felt shorter.

[frankbmd]

This forum is noteworthy for the number of members who seem to enjoy speculating about Hall of Fame membership every year.

They also are quick to rant against the BBWAA if their favorites are not selected by the BBWAA (baseball not boxing).

Few, if any, seem to think the BBWAA does a good job selecting Hall of Famers. Complaints abound about whom they select or don't select in a given year.

So if I pick only three players that I think should be in the Hall in a given year, and only those three players are selected by the BBWAA, does that make me a target for ridicule by the forum members who are perpetually at odds with the BBWAA's selections?

I guess that is one reason not to pontificate about my thoughts on this subject on the forum.

Whoops, I just did.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't think that list is really representative of reality though. Bill Dickey caught over 1700 games. Joe Mauer caught less than 1,000. Berra won 3 MVPs. There is so much more separating them from Mauer than JAWS.

I fully agree, that's why I said the raw numbers aren't everything, and pointed out that there's been a recent shift with how media views catchers. I don't think Mauer gets into the Hall of Fame if this was 30 years ago. But newer voters value his peak of hitting more than his longevity.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Seven

I fully agree, that's why I said the raw numbers aren't everything, and pointed out that there's been a recent shift with how media views catchers. I don't think Mauer gets into the Hall of Fame if this was 30 years ago. But newer voters value his peak of hitting more than his longevity.

I enjoy reading Jay Jaffe's write-ups about the Hall of Fame candidates every year in which he relies on his JAWS scores as part of his decision for how he casts his ballot. However, he does state that it's not the only criteria he uses.

It will be interesting to see the voting for Yadier Molina when he is first eligible. His JAWS score of 35.5 puts him 22nd for catchers while his WAR of 42.3 puts him 19th. Both are below the average scores for catchers already in the Hall of Fame. The averages are 44.2 JAWS and 53.6 WAR.

However, many people seem to think that Molina will be a certain 1st ballot Hall of Famer when he's eligible. For comparison, as you previously indicated, Mauer is 7th in JAWS (and 9th in WAR) while Buster Posey is 14th in JAWS (40.7) and 16th in WAR (44.8) for catchers. Posey and Molina are both below the average Hall of Fame catcher for these values while Mauer is above the average.

[The Detroit Collector]

I dont disagree Mauer should get in. Just not first ballot. I've posted this before but look at the stats between him and Piazza. Almost identical. Yet it took Piazza 4 times to get in.

[packs]

I don't know that you can really talk about Mauer as a catcher the same way you can talk about Posey or Molina.

Mauer appeared in 921 games as catcher but also 603 games as a first baseman. Compare that to Posey who appeared as a catcher in 1,093 games and only 229 at first base.

I think Mauer had essentially two careers, one as the premier catcher in the American League and another as a league average first baseman.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't know that you can really talk about Mauer as a catcher the same way you can talk about Posey or Molina.

Mauer appeared in 921 games as catcher but also 603 games as a first baseman. Compare that to Posey who appeared as a catcher in 1,093 games and only 229 at first base.

I think Mauer had essentially two careers, one as the premier catcher in the American League and another as a league average first baseman.

Not sure I understand the logic. Posey played about one season more at catcher than Mauer, yet we can't compare them as catchers?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't know that you can really talk about Mauer as a catcher the same way you can talk about Posey or Molina.

Mauer appeared in 921 games as catcher but also 603 games as a first baseman. Compare that to Posey who appeared as a catcher in 1,093 games and only 229 at first base.

I think Mauer had essentially two careers, one as the premier catcher in the American League and another as a league average first baseman.

Always hate when I have to agree with Packs on a baseball matter

To further his comparison Piazza caught 1629 of the 1793 career games he started