Every slabbed card has a story, don't it?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

The thread isn't about snowman but he has already addressed that. He has OCD.
I also have been diagnosed with OCD and will pay more for a card that is centered because it bothers me so much to see it off-centered.

Did you have this problem the entire time you have been collecting? I ask because centering wasn't the big deal it is now before the huge centering pump and dump from a few years ago. I am amazed at how long the centering craze has lasted this time.

[campyfan39]

Ben, yes. I have struggled with this along with a few other medical issues most of my life. Even seeing a picture hanging on the wall that is not straight will bug me to the point of getting up and straightening it.
I am not familiar with this "pump and dump" you are referring to but it peaks my interest. Any link or info in a DM would be appreciated

Originally Posted by bnorth

Did you have this problem the entire time you have been collecting? I ask because centering wasn't the big deal it is now before the huge centering pump and dump from a few years ago. I am amazed at how long the centering craze has lasted this time.

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by Snowman

But even for those who earn money by cleaning cards, who cares? People earn money by cleaning all sorts of things. It's not fraud just because YOU (or whoever) don't like it.

This is a poor analogy. When people clean houses, remove stains from upholstery, or wash your car, they don't do it in secret. The end-user knowingly pays for that cleaning service and, presumably, isn't selling the house, upholstery, or car with the hope that no one discovers they've been cleaned.

In the sports card context, the fraud doesn't suddenly spring into existence when the card is sprayed with Kurt's and manipulated with a tortillon. The fraud comes into play when that card is marketed and sold to an unwitting third-party.

You've made it clear that you don't think any of this is an issue... Caveat emptor, sucker born every minute, etc. etc. But let's at least be honest about the distinction between (1) paying people to clean stuff; and (2) selling an item without disclosing that it's been cleaned, presumably because you're afraid of shrinking the market for it and depressing its value.

There's a reason card doctors don't announce, "Hey, I trimmed this card for you so it's aesthetically pleasing and doesn't trigger your OCD. PSA really shouldn't have given it a numeric grade, but I managed to sneak it through, so win-win!"

Likewise, you won't see too many eBay listings like this:

"This Fleer Jordan used to have a big dent. I sprayed it with Kurt's Card Care, a proprietary product with ingredients that are probably all natural, but I'm not really sure.

Anyway, it worked just like Bondo... as you can see, no more dent! I can't tell you how it works exactly, because I'm not a chemist. But let's just say that the water-like mystery substance probably saturated the cardboard fibers and made them rise like yeast, restoring the surface to its original state. It's safe to assume the dent won't return, because why would it? Also, I don't think Kurt's will affect the color or texture, because we probably would've seen it by now, right?"

You and I both know why they don't say all that. Purists and skeptics spend money too, and they generally want to know what they're buying. The only way to keep them in the market for your goods is to keep them in the dark about what you to do them.

To circle back to your original point about people paying for cleaning, I think a closer analogy would be this:

I've got a lightly-used recliner with a stain on it. I pay someone to remove the stain for me. It looks so good afterward, it could pass for brand-new. A friend comes over to help me set up for a garage sale, and he compliments me on my brand-new recliner. I don't correct him. He slaps a "For Sale: Brand New Recliner" sign on it for me. It sells.

Did I commit fraud? I say yes. But something tells me you'd shrug and say no one cares.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Did you have this problem the entire time you have been collecting? I ask because centering wasn't the big deal it is now before the huge centering pump and dump from a few years ago. I am amazed at how long the centering craze has lasted this time.

This is of course utter nonsense. Centering has always been in high demand ever since the first cards were printed. As a kid growing up, trading cards with my friends, centering was pretty much the only thing any of us ever looked at (with the exception of obvious major flaws like creases and completely ruined corners). But the only thing that mattered as long as the card was otherwise EXMT or better was the centering. A centered NM card was worth just as much as a centered "Gem Mint" card is today. Nobody would have paid a penny more for it back then. And a centered NM card was worth significantly more than even a 55/45 "Gem Mint" card would have been. This was true of every single collector I knew, and I knew a lot.

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say there was a "huge centering pump and dump a few years ago", and neither do you. The "centering craze" is not some fad like WNBA cards or Wresling cards that kids are trying to pump. Centered vintage cards always have been and always will be the ocean front property of this hobby whether you like it or not.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Snowman

This is of course utter nonsense. Centering has always been in high demand ever since the first cards were printed. As a kid growing up, trading cards with my friends, centering was pretty much the only thing any of us ever looked at (with the exception of obvious major flaws like creases and completely ruined corners). But the only thing that mattered as long as the card was otherwise EXMT or better was the centering. A centered NM card was worth just as much as a centered "Gem Mint" card is today. Nobody would have paid a penny more for it back then. And a centered NM card was worth significantly more than even a 55/45 "Gem Mint" card would have been. This was true of every single collector I knew, and I knew a lot.

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say there was a "huge centering pump and dump a few years ago", and neither do you. The "centering craze" is not some fad like WNBA cards or Wresling cards that kids are trying to pump. Centered vintage cards always have been and always will be the ocean front property of this hobby whether you like it or not.

For whatever reason, the TPGs (and PSA in particular) have moved the goalposts on centering over the years. In the beginning, it was not uncommon to see cards with 85-15 centering receiving grades of 5 and 6, as long as the corners were sharp and there were no creases.

Over time, they have changed their standards. It used to be that the grade was primarily based on the amount of wear/damage the card had endured. Only later, did their grading shift to incorporate centering, print flaws, fish eyes, and other aspects pertaining to the cards' original production.

Just look at some of the earliest PSA-graded examples if you dispute this.