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#1
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Every slabbed card has a story, don't it?
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#2
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#AsLongAsIt'sSlabbed
Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
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Neal Successful transactions with Peter Spaeth, raulus, ghostmarcelle, Phil Garry, Don Hontz, JStottlemire, maj78, bcbgcbrcb, secondhandwatches, esehobmbre, Leon, Jetsfan, Brian Van Horn, Brian Dwyer, MGHPro, DeanH, canofcorn, Zigger Zagger, conor912, RayBShotz, Jay Wolt, AConte, Halbig Vintage and many others |
#3
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Am I missing something or did he just soak it and rub glue residue off?
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#4
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I like that!
Honestly, I was good with the cleaning part (just wiping off the card) but then cringed when I saw the soaking, but then I thought about it and nothing was added (for example color) or subtracted (trimmed) from the overall card. It was just cleaned. If someone wants to see the N54 people grab their pitchforks and meet in the town square, then show a video of some butt head trimming a card and showing it regraded as a 7 or 8. Just curious, what's the price difference between a PSA2 and SGC4 for that card? I bet it's quite a bit. Crack, clean, submit, and sell for more! What happens is the total population for the graded cards increases unless the PSA2 was de-registered (which it probably wasn't) #AsLongAsIt'sSlabbed
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fr3d c0wl3s - always looking for OJs and other 19th century stuff. PM or email me if you have something cool you're looking to find a new home for. |
#5
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Not my thing, but I think it's a proprietary solution he's peddling, and not just water that the cards soak in. That said, I bet SGC loves this video getting out there.
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Be sure to subscribe to my YouTube Channel, The Stuff Of Greatness. New videos are uploaded every week... https://www.youtube.com/@tsogreatness/videos |
#6
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Quote:
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Leon Luckey |
#7
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Quote:
https://www.kurtscardcare.com/
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#8
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Are glues that were used during that era not water soluble glues, or at least some of them?
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52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 |
#9
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Watch the ‘86 Fleer Jordan video…
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
#10
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definitely a mix of water soluble and not.
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Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
#11
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Interesting Wording
I'm not a graded card guy (I'm too cheap), but I did find this interesting.
Title of video: "Honus Wagner 1911 - Restoration and Re-Grade" Grading terms and condition on SGC website: "7. Customer agrees not to knowingly submit cards to SGC that bear evidence of trimming, recoloring, restoration or any other form of tampering, or are of questionable authenticity, as determined in the sole judgment of SGC (“Altered Cards”)." It seems that Kurt is in violation of SGC Terms and Conditions, and actually made it very public I'm not debating what folks do with their cards. I just found the wording interesting.
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https://mybaseballcards.home.blog/ |
#12
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Quote:
You could send this video to SGC and they arent' going to care one bit.
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#13
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He did just a tad more than wipe off boogers with the ‘86 Fleer Jordan. https://youtu.be/LWuaizTLJfQ?si=rKY6WLGzavbpIQhy Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
#14
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It's not surprising to see you write this.
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Eric Perry Currently collecting: T206 (132/524) 1956 Topps Baseball (193/342) "You can observe a lot by just watching." - Yogi Berra |
#15
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And it's not surprising to see a bunch of boomers in here screaming at clouds again. Like it or not, cleaning a baseball card is not a crime, and it's also allowed by every single TPG. The majority of vintage cards that have any sort of eye appeal at all have been cleaned. If you aren't OK with that, then you should just sell your collection right now, because nobody else cares. In fact most collectors would prefer them cleaned.
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#16
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Comics are cleaned and pressed all the time..
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*********** USAF Veteran 84-94 *********** |
#17
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Yeah, not sure if we’re supposed to be upset about this? As far as I’m concerned, it’s removing stuff that got there after the card was made, making it even closer to its original authentic state. Cool stuff
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Collecting nice-looking but poorly graded cards of legendary HOFers |
#18
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Quote:
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Eric Perry Currently collecting: T206 (132/524) 1956 Topps Baseball (193/342) "You can observe a lot by just watching." - Yogi Berra |
#19
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I'd like to know what is in these allegedly natural proprietary solutions this dude is using and selling. And no, I don't want cards cleaned in them, but realistically it's probably hard to detect unless something like bleach or the equivalent is used to create an artificially bright appearance.
The prevailing ethos may well be moving towards the comics model where a lot of things are acceptable.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#20
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The opinion sellers allow anything as long as they get paid.
Last edited by doug.goodman; 01-17-2024 at 06:57 PM. |
#21
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Once grading got involved in was inevitable.
We will see lots of people able to get out major creases, ink etc. and nobody ever know. I don't necessarily have a problem with it. That's probably because I don't have cards graded. Quote:
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[FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]CampyFan39 Last edited by campyfan39; 01-17-2024 at 07:26 PM. |
#22
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Kurts has done far more than this. I've seen their crease/dent/corner fixes on the Discords. I get that we want to separate water from chemicals but what, half this board has done basically the same thing that's in this particular video?
Obviously it is not a crime to alter a card and nobody thinks it is - selling it while covering that up and not disclosing the truth can be. Of course, this problem all goes away if people just stop playing the game. At least half the people on the anti-alteration side seem to collect and pay premiums for PSA, SGC, et al. As long as we have incompetent graders founded on the myth of an altered card, and most people paying far more money for a made up higher number on their slab than a similarly made up lower one, this is the inevitable result. If folks stopped playing this stupid game, there wouldn't be so many stupid prizes. The game will continue as long as the vast majority are playing this game when they vote with their wallets, if not the mouth. I am more bothered by the grading companies completely lying about the grade to juice a card (see the last BN Ruth, the 9.5 Mantle, that recent T206 Wagner, etc.) or changing grades for certain submitters and former employees than I am that they cannot tell what is altered and don't put much value on improving that situation. And that's why I have stacks of raw cards with creases and stains and boogers laying around my desk. If someone has removed a crease, they got nothing out of doing it and it doesn't affect me any. |
#23
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I can understand those on the side of concluding that Kurt is altering cards, but in reality the "spray" (his other product, the polish - is not for vintage cards) is quick evaporating, and doesn't leave anything detectable on the cards. It just doesn't.
I bought some last year just out of morbid curiosity; not because I was interested in starting a card doctoring business. The spray is described as a "lubricant" by Kurt, and he claims it's all natural. Beyond that of course, he won't say what it is. It's not water, but it also doesn't smell overly chemical. I had moderate success with removing wrinkles (on lower grade vintage common cards in my PC), and more with things like making crunched corners sharp again - and in the end decided that while novel and certainly interesting, a future in using Kurt's products - even if only on my own cards - wasn't for me. Just my two cents - but Kurt's methods are a sideshow right now, and very much a moot point when you have the top grading companies that cannot detect real alteration - trimming and other more heinous type things in many cases on expensive vintage cards. If the Gary Mosers of the world can get much worse stuff by PSA, then going after someone like Kurt - yes even if you consider it alteration - is going to be a huge waste of time. Another of his recommended tricks which involves putting a card in a humidor really does only use water - and under the right conditions - I would imagine a dent or wrinkle could also be removed from a card with humidity by accident in an attic or something. I don't see how anyone could claim that is alteration - although it's yet to be seen on a lot of those I think if the problem would somehow later "come back." But hey, some 1974 Kellogg's cards in PSA 10 slabs get exposed to temperature and humidity and wind up cracking later in the slab. They're still PSA 10's, right? This debate will go on, but I would agree that current sentiment in the hobby may see things like some forms of out-of-the-closet restoration become acceptable. Again, I totally agree with the right of those who think it's wrong to hold their own opinions. As with many other things however, sometimes you can't do anything about it.
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Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. Last edited by jchcollins; 01-17-2024 at 08:27 PM. |
#24
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Water is a chemical. I don't see how dropping a piece of cardboard in water doesn't alter the chemistry of the card. Looking at the before and after photos of the front of the card, the after photo is less vibrant, higher grade notwithstanding.
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Contact me if you have any Dave Kingman cards / memorabilia for sale. |
#25
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Every slabbed card has a story, don't it?
Quote:
As was also pointed out, SGC and others have in the fine print that you can't "knowingly" submit altered cards, but clearly it's never been a policy to police this. How would that remotely be in their interests? On the assumption that many people unknowingly submit altered cards, they have a wide range of services to accommodate that, which includes still getting your card slabbed with a nice explanation of what you didn't know (wink wink) when you subbed it on the flip.
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Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. Last edited by jchcollins; 01-17-2024 at 08:36 PM. |
#26
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Quote:
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 01-17-2024 at 08:29 PM. |
#27
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Quote:
I just meant going after them here. I respect the main board opinions, lol. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. |
#28
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Quote:
Kurt's card spray doesn't affect the color of a card at all (it's mostly distilled water). Neither does dihydrogen monoxide. I have no idea what you mean when you say that soaking a card in water "alters the chemistry of the card", and neither do you.
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#29
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Soaking a card in water changes the moisture content.
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#30
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Quote:
Removing gunk is ok, not sure just what his formula is, but I'd be concerned about how it affects things long term. But the fixing creases, corner dings edge dents... no, that's not ok. One pic on his site shows a 74 Topps with at least one entirely rebuilt corner. |
#31
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To each his own. Personally I don't have a problem with someone removing something that wasn't on a card when it was printed. I do find some of the after grades questionable though.
Does anyone want to take a guess on the before and after grades on this one? Dahlen Sov 350.jpg Dahlen Sov 350 back.jpg |
#32
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One question. What was it soaked in? Water or some "miracle" cleanser? I have a feeling your going to tell us it went from a 2 to a 1.5 since it now has paper loss on the back.
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#33
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Quote:
Rebuilt corner, maybe - but how? Not for profit or anything other than purposes of my own experimentation, but I have gotten a crunched corner back to NM appearing state on a junk era card before using nothing more than his spray and a few minutes time. By “rebuilt corner” I’m thinking many are envisioning razors and glue and donor cardboard. That’s not at all what Kurt does or teaches. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Postwar stars & HOF'ers. Prewar, Bowman & Topps Cubs team endeavors. |
#34
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Quote:
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#35
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You're correct on the before grade. Last edited by Pat R; 01-18-2024 at 12:21 PM. |
#36
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How did you go from a corner that appears to be missing paper to the nice complete corner?
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#37
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I think that's a stain/dirt.
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#38
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That's why you let it dry lol
Also, so does moving from Vegas to New Orleans. Soaking paper in water does not damage it in any way. Museums soak documents that are far more precious than any of our beloved sports cards all the time. The US Constitution, Biblical scrolls, Shakespeare's original writings, etc. These are all cleaned and preserved using the same techniques.
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#39
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Quote:
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#40
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I use distilled water. It does the same thing though. You don't need some special formula to flatten out a bent corner. Honestly, this stuff isn't rocket science. Go take a card, toss it in a bowl of water, then let it dry between some paper towels and stick a book on top of it. I promise you'll change your mind afterward.
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#41
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Could be, that's why I asked. It's hard to tell for sure from the picture.
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#42
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Contact me if you have any Dave Kingman cards / memorabilia for sale. |
#43
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I think that's the best image I have for the before image but I will check and see if I have or can find a better image.
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#44
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Quote:
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Eric Perry Currently collecting: T206 (132/524) 1956 Topps Baseball (193/342) "You can observe a lot by just watching." - Yogi Berra |
#45
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Quote:
I'm hoping this is one of those trick questions and we all get an answer that most people would like to see, for example BEFORE: 2.5, AFTER: AUTH Probably not...
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fr3d c0wl3s - always looking for OJs and other 19th century stuff. PM or email me if you have something cool you're looking to find a new home for. Last edited by Fred; 01-18-2024 at 03:40 PM. |
#46
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This is nonsense. You don't know what you're talking about.
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#47
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Quote:
From my observations on this board, I would estimate that about 80% of the time I read someone claiming that a certain card won't soak well, they're wrong and are simply repeating something they think they heard from someone else and have no experience actually doing it themselves.
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#48
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Quote:
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Eric Perry Currently collecting: T206 (132/524) 1956 Topps Baseball (193/342) "You can observe a lot by just watching." - Yogi Berra |
#49
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This thread is fascinating and I hope it keeps going. I didn't know some of the stuff on his videos was even possible. This guy could literally make a living submitting cards he fixed. He has a surgeon's hand and the patience of Job! No way I have ether of those.
The best post on here IMO is the one I quoted part of. If people stopped participating in the pecker measuring contests (aka the registrys) then there would be no conversations about any of this. Quote:
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[FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"]CampyFan39 Last edited by campyfan39; 01-18-2024 at 06:57 PM. |
#50
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I don't normally jump into these arguments, but I agree with Snowman. The water does not alter the 'chemistry' of the wood fibers that make up the paper. The paper is still paper, whether it is wet or not. It may be easier to say the 'structure' of the molecules that make up the card are not changed. No chemical reaction has occurred which changes the paper into something else. After the card is dried it is still a card made of paper and ink.
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'Integrity is what you do when no one is looking' "The man who can keep a secret may be wise, but he is not half as wise as the man with no secrets to keep” |
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