1934-1936 R327 Diamond Stars

Spike · #1 01-14-2024, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

I've been thinking about these cards a bit, lately.

The R136 Sky Birds by National Chicle... the backs start in 1933 with Series of 48 on the back, only to get big plans with 1934 cards with Series of 144 on the back; yet in total the cards are numbered 1 through 108.

The R327 Diamond Stars by National Chicle, start in 1934, talking of a Series of 240 with green backs, then 1935 dates with a Series of green backs, then 1935 with blue backs, ending with 1936 with blue backs... always mentioning a Series of 240 cards; yet in total the cards are numbered, wait for it, yes, 1-108.

Sky Birds started first, and was expanded. Diamond Stars started the next year, aspiring to equal the 1933 Goudey's in quantity. Both may well have been printed in 12 card bunches. And both put the brakes on production at 108. Any of you studied this???

Three ex-Goudey Gum execs incorporated National Chicle as a new company in December 1933, so the similar approaches to printing makes some sense. Confectionery industry magazines and federal copyright data from 1934-36 add some detail.

Chicle's Sky Birds initial "series of 48" kicked off in mid-Jan 1934 and expanded to "series of 144" sometime later that year. They debuted Batter-Up baseball #1-80 in May 1934 and Diamond Stars Gum #1-24 came out sometime midyear. As you noted, Diamond Stars expanded in 1935-36. Jason Schwartz's research for SABR shows that Batter-Up's high series waited until 1936. Chicle's 1934 non-sport sets include Tom Mix booklets #1-24 Sept/Oct 1934, followed by #25-48. It's unclear when Dare Devils #1-24 came out, as the current archive.org data lacks trademark claims for that particular set.

Archive's copyright records _do_ show Goudey and National Chicle often left gaps to trick kids into buying numbers that didn't yet exist. Goudey scattered its 1933 Big League Gum numbers all over the place and then released 1934 Big League Gum #1-3 + #5-24 on May 1 and held #4 for their next series a month later. Running a business during the Great Depression must've been a factor in companies stringing all these pieces along, bit by bit, hoping to get a bit more money.

Customer complaints might've encouraged our government to prevent further "scattered number" schemes. They purportedly forced Goudey to complete the 1933 set in 1934 by providing the newly-printed #106 Lajoie on request. The FTC also hit Goudey with a cease-and-desist on its lottery-like gum sales approaches in 1938, which I'll guess followed some previous investigations. National Chicle went bankrupt and sold its trademarks to Goudey in mid-1937, so lack of competition might also play a role. Hope that's all useful info!

cfp · #2 01-15-2024, 09:46 AM

I have almost completed the Sky Birds set, but just have a few Diamond Stars. I have been thinking about putting the Diamond Stars together and this thread might be just the push I need

puckpaul · #3 01-15-2024, 11:06 AM

It was interesting to go back over the PSA pop reports on DS. The high numbers are definitely scarce. With 15-40 examples graded, and not jist 97-108 but also 85-96.

But what is the deal with the Lew Fonseca card number 7? Only 7 are listed as graded. Is this a true rarity? I have the whole set so I should know, but i bought 80% of it in one lot and never searched for many of the cards.

My Fonseca is labeled as �35 years old�. There was a thread on this a little back in 2003 that I found searching the forum. Was that a gimmicked card that was issued later or purposely low-printed? Never hear it talked about on these boards.

jayshum · #4 01-15-2024, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puckpaul

It was interesting to go back over the PSA pop reports on DS. The high numbers are definitely scarce. With 15-40 examples graded, and not jist 97-108 but also 85-96.

But what is the deal with the Lew Fonseca card number 7? Only 7 are listed as graded. Is this a true rarity? I have the whole set so I should know, but i bought 80% of it in one lot and never searched for many of the cards.

My Fonseca is labeled as �35 years old�. There was a thread on this a little back in 2003 that I found searching the forum. Was that a gimmicked card that was issued later or purposely low-printed? Never hear it talked about on these boards.

The Diamond Stars were issued from 1934 to 1936, and many of the same card numbers were issued multiple times with different information on the back depending on the year they were issued. For the Fonseca, it either says 34 years old or 35 years old in the bio information at the bottom depending on if it was issued in 1934 or 1935. I'm not sure why the population count is so low.

Seven · #5 01-15-2024, 02:36 PM

Was it ever determined why Gehrig wasn't in the set? Licensing problem? Compensation?

As far as I know the only issues from around this time for Gehrig were his cardboard cutouts through Wheaties, or his rare World Wide Gum issue from 1936.

brianp-beme · #6 01-15-2024, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven

Was it ever determined why Gehrig wasn't in the set? Licensing problem? Compensation?

As far as I know the only issues from around this time for Gehrig were his cardboard cutouts through Wheaties, or his rare World Wide Gum issue from 1936.

Diamond Stars were first issued in 1934, the year in which Lou was prominently featured in the 1934 Goudey set with 2 cards and the "Lou Gehrig Says" on most of the cards, so I assume he had an exclusive contract for that year and perhaps the following years (?) And perhaps since that was the case, as a carryover he was not considered for other later issued Diamond Series cards.

It is interesting to note that he is also not in any other later Goudey sets (1935 4 in 1, 1936 B/W, the R312 or R313 premiums or the 1938 Heads Up. Perhaps a dispute with Goudey?

Brian

brianp-beme · #7 01-15-2024, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayshum

The Diamond Stars were issued from 1934 to 1936, and many of the same card numbers were issued multiple times with different information on the back depending on the year they were issued. For the Fonseca, it either says 34 years old or 35 years old in the bio information at the bottom depending on if it was issued in 1934 or 1935. I'm not sure why the population count is so low.

And to add on to what Jay said, it is easy to check the issue date for all but the Fonseca card by checking the year listed for the stats on the bottom, and just add a year. For example, cards that have stats for the year 1934 were issued in 1935. Since 1933 was the last year Lew was in the majors, the makers of Diamond Stars left his 1933 stats on his 1935 card, and only updated his age.

Brian

puckpaul · #8 01-15-2024, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayshum

The Diamond Stars were issued from 1934 to 1936, and many of the same card numbers were issued multiple times with different information on the back depending on the year they were issued. For the Fonseca, it either says 34 years old or 35 years old in the bio information at the bottom depending on if it was issued in 1934 or 1935. I'm not sure why the population count is so low.

Thanks. Well, i was looking up other Fonseca cards for sale and clicking through for listings from the pop report there were 4 psa graded DS Fonseca�s on Ebay today alone, so clearly PSA is just missing info and the website pop report is in error.

brianp-beme · #9 01-15-2024, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puckpaul

Thanks. Well, i was looking up other Fonseca cards for sale and clicking through for listings from the pop report there were 4 psa graded DS Fonseca�s on Ebay today alone, so clearly PSA is just missing info and the website pop report is in error.

The PSA population report has three separate listings for Diamond Stars Cards: 1934, 1935, and 1936. The Fonseca card is listed in both 1934 and 1935, which is accurate, because the Fonseca card was not issued in 1936.

In the 1935 listing, PSA has Fonseca listed without the '35 Years Old' designation, which is perfectly fine, and is possibly their new way of identifying this card on labels. I see 10 total cards graded, 3 with qualifiers.

In the 1934 listing, PSA has two separate Fonseca listings:

34 Years Old: total of 91 cards graded

35 Years Old: total of 84 cards graded

The '35 Years Old' listing in 1934 is incorrect, and should be moved to the 1935 section listing.

Brian

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