Hey, pennant guys

[71buc]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Nice, Mike! Is the new one an upgrade to the one you had?

Yes it is much nicer

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Buyer Beware....

Not that anyone here would likely pony up the crazy asking price for this, but be warned that this is almost surely a reproduction pennant, and NOT original...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/14547875566...Bk9SR6aP8YqIYw

The spine and stitching are all wrong for this pennant and it should be oversized (not full sized). Note how the seller's measurements include the tassels. Likely made by Mitchell & Ness, and heavily/artificially aged and weathered to look old.

Stay away!

Thanks for the heads up...I was just about ready to Buy it Now!

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Thanks for the heads up...I was just about ready to Buy it Now!

Haha. I guess the point I was trying to make is… If you’re going to ask an outrageous price for something, try to make sure it is what you say it is.

[Chstrite]

NFS - Finally found the missing piece to my Brooks Robinson All Star Game Pennants (1960-1974). This took several years. The missing Pennant was 1964 (NYC), which is not very nice but I’ll take it. In 1960-1962 MLB had two AS games in different locations. Some years had 2 or more pennants. Brooks was honorary Captain in 1978. Below are all of the Pennants by year with variations I own shown separately. I especially like the scrolls with Brooks name. The 1965 Pennant came in a blue and red version with a picture. In addition to the Pennants I struggled but found each All Star Game Press Pin, Ticket and Program/Scorecard. Always looking for the buttons, which are not easy to find. Enjoy.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by Chstrite

NFS - Finally found the missing piece to my Brooks Robinson All Star Game Pennants (1960-1974). This took several years. The missing Pennant was 1964 (NYC), which is not very nice but I’ll take it. In 1960-1962 MLB had two AS games in different locations. Some years had 2 or more pennants. Brooks was honorary Captain in 1978. Below are all of the Pennants by year with variations I own shown separately. I especially like the scrolls with Brooks name. The 1965 Pennant came in a blue and red version with a picture. In addition to the Pennants I struggled but found each All Star Game Press Pin, Ticket and Program/Scorecard. Always looking for the buttons, which are not easy to find. Enjoy.

Congrats! That's a great ASG collection. I haven't seen that 1974 ASG pennant before. Very cool. I think there was a similar design for 1975. Great to see them all fanned out like that.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

Congrats! That's a great ASG collection. I haven't seen that 1974 ASG pennant before. Very cool. I think there was a similar design for 1975. Great to see them all fanned out like that.

Yes….a fantastic group of ASG pennants! So satisfying to “complete” something. 👍

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Interesting and seldom-seen manufacturer tag on this one. Has this company been discussed yet? If anyone knows about R. Worton, I guess it's probably Kyle...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/16647730682...Bk9SR6iP8YqIYw

R. Worton was a brick and mortar retailer located outside (Old) Yankee Stadium. His tags have been seen on a number of pennants by different makers. Therefore, he's probably not this pennant's maker; rather, just its distributor.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by Chstrite

NFS - Finally found the missing piece to my Brooks Robinson All Star Game Pennants (1960-1974). This took several years. The missing Pennant was 1964 (NYC), which is not very nice but I’ll take it. In 1960-1962 MLB had two AS games in different locations. Some years had 2 or more pennants. Brooks was honorary Captain in 1978. Below are all of the Pennants by year with variations I own shown separately. I especially like the scrolls with Brooks name. The 1965 Pennant came in a blue and red version with a picture. In addition to the Pennants I struggled but found each All Star Game Press Pin, Ticket and Program/Scorecard. Always looking for the buttons, which are not easy to find. Enjoy.

Absolutely incredible!

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Domer05

R. Worton was a brick and mortar retailer located outside (Old) Yankee Stadium. His tags have been seen on a number of pennants by different makers. Therefore, he's probably not this pennant's maker; rather, just its distributor.

That's very interesting and I now recall mention of them earlier in this thread.

What's odd to me is that the Worton Tag is incorporated into the pennant's original stitching which attaches the spine to the base felt pennant. So the manufacturer must have done this in the original production phase just for Worton.

[UKCardGuy]

I'm not 100% sure that it is incorporated into the pennants original stitching. Looking at the close up, is it possible that the tag was added on top of the original stitching? The loops on the stitches where the label is don't look the same as what's on the rest of the spine stitching.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by Domer05

R. Worton was a brick and mortar retailer located outside (Old) Yankee Stadium. His tags have been seen on a number of pennants by different makers. Therefore, he's probably not this pennant's maker; rather, just its distributor.

I have this pennant, but mine does not have a tag on the back. Leads me to believe this is most likely correct.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Interesting and seldom-seen manufacturer tag on this one. Has this company been discussed yet? If anyone knows about R. Worton, I guess it's probably Kyle...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/16647730682...Bk9SR6iP8YqIYw

This is funny. I’ve not seen this repro before, but it has all the tell tale signs of a Mitchell and Ness. Tassles, placement, stitching, etc. weird. I have bought and sold 3 or 4 of the original pennant over the years. There was a small find of them in a trunk in MA (I think) many years ago that were sold on eBay. They’re the most common of the early pennants, but still incredibly beautiful.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

This is funny. I’ve not seen this repro before, but it has all the tell tale signs of a Mitchell and Ness. Tassles, placement, stitching, etc. weird. I have bought and sold 3 or 4 of the original pennant over the years. There was a small find of them in a trunk in MA (I think) many years ago that were sold on eBay. They’re the most common of the early pennants, but still incredibly beautiful.

Thanks for the info, Jason...

Yes, I've always thought that one (the original undated and oversized version) is the most "common" of all the oversized teens pennants. Makes sense that there was a small find, as lots of them are NRMT-MT condition.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by perezfan

That's very interesting and I now recall mention of them earlier in this thread.

What's odd to me is that the Worton Tag is incorporated into the pennant's original stitching which attaches the spine to the base felt pennant. So the manufacturer must have done this in the original production phase just for Worton.

That's right. The maker sewed the retailer's/distributor's/concessionaire's label on, for them, during the manufacturing process. They would have done this for any retailer that ordered a particularly high volume of pennants from them, at wholesale prices, of course.

I had always thought Trench was the first maker to do this; but, as you'll see in my last post, actually, The Reproduction Co. was the first, as they happily sewed Spalding's label on collegiate and baseball pennants they made and supplied the Chicago-based company with.

[bocca001]

I was sort of familiar with reproduction co from the baseball pennants, but did not know about the early football pennants and others, or the role that this company played in modernizing pennants. Really enjoyed reading your piece Kyle.

Also, I noticed that, for me, the pennant fever link at the bottom of your posts doesn't take me to your webapge. I get some kind of error. Not sure If I'm the only one. I find it by searching pennant fever on google. The pennant factory one works fine.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by bocca001

I was sort of familiar with reproduction co from the baseball pennants, but did not know about the early football pennants and others, or the role that this company played in modernizing pennants. Really enjoyed reading your piece Kyle.

Also, I noticed that, for me, the pennant fever link at the bottom of your posts doesn't take me to your webapge. I get some kind of error. Not sure If I'm the only one. I find it by searching pennant fever on google. THe pennant factor one works fine.

Same here.... The first link won't work for me either. Probably an easy fix that is beyond my tech expertise.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Same here.... The first link won't work for me either. Probably an easy fix that is beyond my tech expertise.

Same. It’s not you, Mark. It probably wouldn’t ever work for Bart.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by bocca001

I was sort of familiar with reproduction co from the baseball pennants, but did not know about the early football pennants and others, or the role that this company played in modernizing pennants. Really enjoyed reading your piece Kyle.

Also, I noticed that, for me, the pennant fever link at the bottom of your posts doesn't take me to your webapge. I get some kind of error. Not sure If I'm the only one. I find it by searching pennant fever on google. The pennant factory one works fine.

"IDIOT."

That's what I get for putting a semi-colon in my signature block (touching the hyperlink).

Thanks for pointing that out, guys.

Additionally, I thanked a few of you privately for letting me use images of pennants you either own or shared on your websites, channels, etc. in my last piece. Now, let me publicly thank you:

Mark S./YouTube: TheStuffOfGreatness (perezfan)
Rob G./feltfootball.com (fballguy)
Matt Z./ebay: pennantdynasty
Keith J./Youtube: VintageSportsFlips (mrkrab)

...And anyone else on the thread that shared a photo I used, but forgot to credit. My apologies. But thank you just the same.

To those that read my last piece on Reproduction Co., and made it to the end, thank you. Look for the above contributors' pennant cameos somewhere in there--I promise, they're there.

[bocca001]

Here is a recent pickup. I bought a lot of 47 different (mostly travel) pennants to get this one Billy Ball pennant. It is surprisingly hard to find. I know that at least a few of you also appreciate these types of early 1980s rarities.

If you were around the Bay Area in the early 1980s, you can probably still hear the radio jingle in your head "Billy Ball, A's baseball, why's everybody always picking on me?"

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Here is a recent pickup. I bought a lot of 47 different (mostly travel) pennants to get this one Billy Ball pennant. It is surprisingly hard to find. I know that at least a few of you also appreciate these types of early 1980s rarities.

If you were around the Bay Area in the early 1980s, you can probably still hear the radio jingle in your head "Billy Ball, A's baseball, why's everybody always picking on me?"

Also known as the Shooty Babbit era … lol

[doug.goodman]

I almost posted this in response to the Billy Ball pennant, but because it's completely off topic on a pennant thread, I didn't.

But, mention of Shooty Babbit forces my hand and it's completely on topic for Billy Ball.

This took me a bunch of games at the Coliseum in 1981 (each a 200 mile round trip drive) to put together.

Note how most of the signatures are readable, with barely any overlap, it was a different time.

For me the key is Mike Norris, who was very stingy with his autographs, I won him over by calling him Cy Young instead of Mr. Norris, an award he deserved to win the previous year.

[ooo-ribay]

I had to google Mr. Babbit.

[Vintagedeputy]

I’m not sure why I keep finding late 50s Braves pennants but here’s another one that I just picked up. This is the less valuable “with Spahn“ version but it’s still a beauty. Look at those names!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

I’m not sure why I keep finding late 50s Braves pennants but here’s another one that I just picked up. This is the less valuable “with Spahn“ version but it’s still a beauty. Look at those names!

I like it. I wonder if it was meant to be monochromatic or if it just missed getting additional screenings. The latter definitely happens.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I like it. I wonder if it was meant to be monochromatic or if it just missed getting additional screenings. The latter definitely happens.

I’m not sure, but I feel like it has a classic, simple look to it

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

I’m not sure, but I feel like it has a classic, simple look to it

Nice pickup... I've seen it both ways (monochromatic and colored) and yours is rarer. Condition looks great too... this type is often found beaten up. Great score!

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Nice pickup... I've seen it both ways (monochromatic and colored) and yours is rarer. Condition looks great too... this type is often found beaten up. Great score!

Thanks! I was very happy to have found it. I know there’s a version without Spahn that’s supposed to be worth more, but I like this version better with Spahn.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Thanks! I was very happy to have found it. I know there’s a version without Spahn that’s supposed to be worth more, but I like this version better with Spahn.

I like it better too. Perceived rarity aside, you've gotta have Spahnie on there!

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I like it better too. Perceived rarity aside, you've gotta have Spahnie on there!

No question!

[UKCardGuy]

Thats a great Braves pickup.

I'm off for Christmas now so I have the time to post a recent arrival. It's a cloth pennant. I haven't seen many with the single color graphics. I wonder if they just ran out of black ink or they just created different variations?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

Thats a great Braves pickup.

I'm off for Christmas now so I have the time to post a recent arrival. It's a cloth pennant. I haven't seen many with the single color graphics. I wonder if they just ran out of black ink or they just created different variations?

Do you own the other(s) you speak of? I’d like to see a pic.

[perezfan]

Gary.... Nice one! So tough to find a clean copy of that pennant... an underrated one for sure. Those white cloth pennants just didn't stand the test of time very well, but yours looks immaculate. Good get!

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Do you own the other(s) you speak of? I’d like to see a pic.

I only have the one in my post. But here's an image of the two-color version.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

I only have the one in my post. But here's an image of the two-color version.

Thanks! 👍

[brad15]

Hello all. I have had this pennant since 1972 when my grandmother died. It was part of the sports collection my grandpa acquired before he died in 1939. He attended world series games in 1926, 1930 and 1931 in St. Louis. I assume this pennant is from one of those years. On the back spine of the pennant is an embroidered label that says Baldwin Regalia Company, ST. Louis MO. I joined this forum while I was trying to research the pennant which led me to Mike Egner and his vintage pennant price guide. After talking to him, I sent him pics of the pennant and he included it in the 2nd vintage price guide. This pennant is on page 207 if you have a copy. My question is, has anyone here seen another copy of this pennant or any pennant made by the Baldwin Regalia Co.? I have been following this thread all these years and have not seen another one show up here. This pennant left me a clue that there are more out there somewhere. Thanks! Brad

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by brad15

Hello all. I have had this pennant since 1972 when my grandmother died. It was part of the sports collection my grandpa acquired before he died in 1939. He attended world series games in 1926, 1930 and 1931 in St. Louis. I assume this pennant is from one of those years. On the back spine of the pennant is an embroidered label that says Baldwin Regalia Company, ST. Louis MO. I joined this forum while I was trying to research the pennant which led me to Mike Egner and his vintage pennant price guide. After talking to him, I sent him pics of the pennant and he included it in the 2nd vintage price guide. This pennant is on page 207 if you have a copy. My question is, has anyone here seen another copy of this pennant or any pennant made by the Baldwin Regalia Co.? I have been following this thread all these years and have not seen another one show up here. This pennant left me a clue that there are more out there somewhere. Thanks! Brad

Terrific story. Amazing what's out there!

[ooo-ribay]

Very cool, Brad! If you’ve been following this thread, you’ll know our resident researcher is Kyle aka Domer. We’re all “pennant guys”, but Kyle is the go to for the old stuff. Hopefully, he will weigh in. If not Kyle, there are other very knowledgeable guys who regularly contribute to this thread. Can you post a picture of the tag? Also, what does your pennant measure? I’m looking forward to learning more!

[brad15]

Thanks' Hank and Rob. I have read every post on this thread from the beginning. Thank you Rob for starting it. Looks like its every ones favorite thread. A friend of mine made the frame for this pennant and he included at least 50 screws to hold the back on. I'm not ready to take it apart again. I did send Mike Egner a pic of the label before I framed it but, I did not save it. The pennant measures 34 inches long and the spine is 15 inches. I really hope to see if there are any more out there. If not, I would like to see others post pics of their vintage Cardinal pennants. Thanks again, Brad

[UKCardGuy]

That's great pennants Brad.

I found a couple of listings for pennants made by the same company

https://robertedwardauctions.com/auc...g-ebbets-field

https://www.huntauctions.com/online/...=440&lot_qual=

It looks like the company still exists. https://regaliamfg.com/

I wonder if they maintain any sort of company history?

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Very cool, Brad! If you’ve been following this thread, you’ll know our resident researcher is Kyle aka Domer. We’re all “pennant guys”, but Kyle is the go to for the old stuff. Hopefully, he will weigh in. If not Kyle, there are other very knowledgeable guys who regularly contribute to this thread. Can you post a picture of the tag? Also, what does your pennant measure? I’m looking forward to learning more!

I hadn't heard much about Baldwin Regalia Co. before today. A simple google search revealed they're still in business, specializing in the production of outdoor flags d/b/a Baldwin Preismeyer, now located in the suburban St. Louis area. See:

About Baldwin Priesmeyer
Our company was founded in 1908 by the Chauncey R. Baldwin family and remained in the family until 1985. Throughout our long history, we have always been located and operated in the city of St. Louis, until moving to Brentwood Missouri in March of 2003, expanding and modernizing our facilities. We moved again in March of 2023 to St Louis County outside of Creve Coeur and Chesterfield. We maintain a reputation for quality, efficiency, and prompt delivery and service.Over the years Baldwin Regalia (the original name) has manufactured or worked with a wide variety of products - many of which we no longer produce. Some of these products include the manufacture of chenille letters, horse blankets, drapes, window valances, pillow tops, jockey suits, and felt caps. Diminishing demand for these products and the introduction of more efficient machines and materials resulted in the company's departure from these markets in the 1950s and 1960s.

So, they undoubtedly dabbled in felt novelty pennants during the "gas house gang" era, when the red birds were routinely playing in the world series. That so, doesn't look like they made a lot of felt pennants over the years; and, probably none since the 1940s.

I've looked at a lot of trade catalogues from the 20th century and I've never seen this company listed as a recognized manufacturer of felt pennants. So, I'm thinking they only made pennants when the cards played in the world series?

Additionally, I suppose we can't entirely rule this manufacturer out as the mystery maker behind the "grommet pennant" series made between 1919 into the 1940s: https://pennantfactory.weebly.com/bl...champs-pennant

[Domer05]

Here's the two known burgee flags, each measuring approximately 116" in length. Although the Phillies burgee listed by Hunt says it came from Wrigley, I believe this to be incorrect: it more likely came from Ebbets Field, where the team had a tradition of flying a solid blue "BROOKLYN" burgee beside a similar one for the visiting team, flying on an opposite pole outside the famed facade.

Here's a photo taken outside Ebbets Field during the 1956 World Series, Yankees vs. Dodgers. (The Yankees burgee was solid white with "NEW YORK" embroidered in black, visible behind the American flag in the photo.)

[brad15]

Thank you Domer for all that information! Did not even think of the possibility of it being the "mystery maker". BTW the label you posted is the exact same as the one on my pennant! Brad

[ooo-ribay]

Gary and Kyle solved the mystery” within 3 hours.

Gonna have to come up with some tougher mysteries.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by brad15

Thanks' Hank and Rob. I have read every post on this thread from the beginning. Thank you Rob for starting it. Looks like its every ones favorite thread. A friend of mine made the frame for this pennant and he included at least 50 screws to hold the back on. I'm not ready to take it apart again. I did send Mike Egner a pic of the label before I framed it but, I did not save it. The pennant measures 34 inches long and the spine is 15 inches. I really hope to see if there are any more out there. If not, I would like to see others post pics of their vintage Cardinal pennants. Thanks again, Brad

That’s an amazing pennant. What’s truly amazing is, with this surely being the only known example and no evidence of sales, the price guide threw up a value of … $250-350! What? Sample of size 0. … I can only guess that this pennant would fetch anywhere between $1500 and $5000 in auction, maybe more. Cardinals have some aggressive collectors and there just aren’t many super old oversized Cards pennants out there.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

That’s an amazing pennant. What’s truly amazing is, with this surely being the only known example and no evidence of sales, the price guide threw up a value of … $250-350! What? Sample of size 0. … I can only guess that this pennant would fetch anywhere between $1500 and $5000 in auction, maybe more. Cardinals have some aggressive collectors and there just aren’t many super old oversized Cards pennants out there.

Completely agree!

[ooo-ribay]

VERY happy to add this to my collection! Bocca of course saw it, too, and he was gracious enough to let me go for it. It was a long seven days waiting for the auction to end. I increased my max bid four times! It was another long nine days waiting for it to arrive, because the USPS decided to send it on a U.S. tour. When I first saw this pennant, I thought "oh, someone replaced the 1962 team picture with a Falstaff postcard." Then, it dawned on me that this pennant is always black. Bocca searched Worthpoint and could not find another orange example. I know of another Giants collector who saw the pennant, but the Falstaff pic is what he saw and the color variation didn't "compute." I am actually glad JR just lists stuff as he finds it and doesn't bother with an iron, etc. Is this cloth (see blurry picture of the frayed thread)? Another odd thing is how the spine thread is black on the front and tan on the back. Even after picking off the remnants of the old spine, I'm not sure how this stitching is done. The replaced spine is temporary...it's in two pieces, as I didn't have enough black felt on hand. Anyway, happy to have this...it's been awhile since I've found a new Giants pennant.

[Duluth Eskimo]

That’s a sweet Cardinals pennant. I believe this is most likely from those years in the 20’s. I have never seen a Cardinals pennant like this, but have seen other similar styles. Maybe not a one off, but most likely a single survivor. Possibly custom made for some type of display. Coming up with prices on these is difficult, but I agree it’s most like in that $2500 to 5k range. The stitching with the Cardinal is outstanding.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

When I first saw this pennant, I thought "oh, someone replaced the 1962 team picture with a Falstaff postcard." Then, it dawned on me that this pennant is always black. Bocca searched Worthpoint and could not find another orange example. I know of another Giants collector who saw the pennant, but the Falstaff pic is what he saw and the color variation didn't "compute." Anyway, happy to have this...it's been awhile since I've found a new Giants pennant.

Sweet variation! Why did you take the picture out?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Sweet variation! Why did you take the picture out?

The picture was completely wrong and I couldn’t very well iron it with the picture still attached. A buddy has the “right” picture, which he is going to give me.

[brad15]

Thank you guys for the comments on my Cardinal pennant. That pennant price guide came out 10 years ago and I even thought then that it was valued pretty low compared to some others in the book. I guess they always look better in hand and Mike Egner only saw pictures. With that I was still hoping to see some more vintage Cardinal pennants. Does any one have more to post? Thanks!