1911 Addie Joss Day??? RPPC at Mile High

[Dardevl]

Thank you Peter!

I am fairly confident in the 1910-11 date range, due to the lack of available advertisement space in the 1909 World Series panoramic and its lack of existence in known prior images;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1909_W...rld-series.jpg

https://digitalcollections.detroitpu...ndora%3A162949

This would be bookended by a 1912 Navin Field opening date. That would narrow the possible dates significantly.

However, ultimately it boils down to the absolutes within the image.

[Dardevl]

Several board members have asked about the communication with MHCC and SGC.

Prior to starting this thread, I reached out via email to both MHCC and SGC. MHCC is aware of my observations and concerns as they responded with disagreement, then dismissiveness; I have yet to hear back from SGC.

MHCC is also aware of this thread, as Brian called to discuss this with me. He offered no counter to the location issue, other than a Cartesian argument, that I cannot truly know what either ballpark looked like, based on the fact that I have never been to either ballpark. He also "deferred" to the SGC flip.

I can't imagine the drop in someone's stomach, when the inaccurate location information comes to light. Unless, as a friend mentioned when discussing this, the buyer just collects flips.

[T206Jim]

Very disappointing ... to say the least.

[JollyElm]

There is a real decent chance that is Ty Cobb. The face structure - from the same exact 'bends' and what not of the ears, the tension lines in his cheek and by his mouth, and the teeth-gritting snarl - is a near-perfect match (I tried to photoshop it a bit to release hidden details, but nothing 'new' was revealed). Obviously, I could be wrong. Since other pictures exist of him in a Cleveland jersey, there's no reason to conclude it was taken on Addie Joss Day. There's got to be a bizarre reason behind him wearing that uniform on other occasions. Certainly, the rules governing attire were way looser back then, so who knows what was going on??

You should 're-Cartesian Circle' that guy and say, "You didn't witness every uniform Ty Cobb wore, so how are you able to say the pic could only be from Addie Joss Day???"

Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but the biggest dispeller of this photo originating from Addie Joss Day is that big white building in right or right center. As far as I know (not much on this subject), nothing like that appears there in the 'Joss Day' stadium, so wouldn't that prove the case?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Dardevl

Several board members have asked about the communication with MHCC and SGC.

Prior to starting this thread, I reached out via email to both MHCC and SGC. MHCC is aware of my observations and concerns as they responded with disagreement, then dismissiveness; I have yet to hear back from SGC.

MHCC is also aware of this thread, as Brian called to discuss this with me. He offered no counter to the location issue, other than a Cartesian argument, that I cannot truly know what either ballpark looked like, based on the fact that I have never been to either ballpark. He also "deferred" to the SGC flip.

I can't imagine the drop in someone's stomach, when the inaccurate location information comes to light. Unless, as a friend mentioned when discussing this, the buyer just collects flips.

That argument hinging on needing an eyewitness to an event over a century ago to determine anything should be reason enough to dismiss the claim. I can't see why we would think this is anything but a Cleveland player during a game. The facial features are not very clear.


More sadly, I don't know why we would expect graders or auctioneers to be able to defend their claims at all either

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Dardevl

MHCC is also aware of this thread, as Brian called to discuss this with me. He offered no counter to the location issue, other than a Cartesian argument, that I cannot truly know what either ballpark looked like, based on the fact that I have never been to either ballpark.

Photographic evidence of what the ballparks looked like in 1911 are far better evidence than the memory of someone who was at least 10 years old at the time (who would be 120 years old today.) Most of us know what the Eiffel Tower looks like, though a small percentage of us have actually seen it in person.

That response is completely devoid of reason. Hopefully SGC will admit their mistake.

[drumback]

Terry Turner, perhaps?

[drumback]

Turner has a facial structure similar to Cobb. The more I look at photos of Turner, the more convinced I am it's him.

[RCMcKenzie]

Here's his T206. Turner was my first suggestion in post 14. I learned what to look for from reading your posts in the past. I was looking for a Cleveland player with wide ears.

[calvindog]

Looks like MH pulled it.