Contact from an Auction as an Under Bidder

[parkplace33]

Two questions from different lens about under bidders.

As a bidder: I am sure this isn’t prevalent, but have you ever bid in an auction, lost the item, but then were contacted by the auction as the under bidder to see if you wanted buy the item at the lower price? If so, what was your decision? Curious on experiences. I have had this happen to me twice in auctions. Once I bought the item (really wanted it), the second time I did not (less interested in the item due to other purchases in that auction).

For auction reps: Is it normal protocol to go the under bidder if the high bidder doesn’t complete the auction sale? Or is this a decision made with the consignor?

[darwinbulldog]

Can you clarify if this is about eBay sellers or auction houses? I've had it happen several times through eBay (which, as a seller, I realize has a serious problem with non-paying bidders) and have gotten a few pretty good deals that way. I don't think I've ever had it happen with any of the auction houses I've bid with.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Can you clarify if this is about eBay sellers or auction houses? I've had it happen several times through eBay (which, as a seller, I realize has a serious problem with non-paying bidders) and have gotten a few pretty good deals that way. I don't think I've ever had it happen with any of the auction houses I've bid with.

I will leave it open ended, but my original thought was auction houses.

[Casey2296]

When I was building my E98 Master I won a 3 card lot, I think it was Chance in 3 different colors, I only needed the one so I asked the AH to contact the under bidder to see if he wanted the other two. He did, we agreed on a price through the AH and did the deal. Worked out for all parties.

If I was contacted as the under bidder on an item I lost I'd appreciate the opportunity and decide whether it was something I still wanted.

[x2drich2000]

Yup, had it happen to me with this card. When it was auctioned I wanted 1 of this type for my collection and 5 were in the same auction. 1 was higher grade so I figured I couldn't afford it. Another was in a large lot and figured I couldn't afford the whole lot and I wanted this one more anyway. Going into the auction, this was my priority. Well auction night came along and I got outbid on this and ended up settling for my lowest priority. Was definitely thrilled to pick up one though. Shortly thereafter the one in the large lot popped up on Ebay and I grabbed it. Then the auction house contacted me about buying this one at my max. Since it was the one I really wanted that I could afford, I jumped at the chance to get it. Today I have 4 of the 5 (still interested in the other, hint hint) that were in the auction and anyone that knows me knows my obsession with these.

[Snapolit1]

My immediate response to this scenario (has happened a few times) is that the winner was a shill in cahoots with the seller and the price was unfairly run up. Someone "accidentially won" and there was an "oh shit" moment. Depending on the circumstances (partucular AH, etc.) I could be convinced otherwise.

My fraud antenna would be up big time if I was contacted 20 minutes after the auction ended. And that has happened on eBay. That's real fishy. (Somehow seller already knows that 20 minutes later that this is a non-payment situation?)

I'd day most of the time I walk away from these situations. Wait for the next one.

[Rhotchkiss]

This has happened to me several times over the years. My decision to buy or not is sometimes based on how badly I still want the card and sometimes based on whether I trust the auction house. In the first case, sometimes I agreed to buy the card bc I still wanted it and sometimes I no longer wanted it (at that price or otherwise) and declined. In the second case, there are auction houses that have hidden reserves and others I feel don’t police shenanigans as well as other outfits. If the offer is from one of these auction houses, I have decide if I was really the “underbidder”, and if not, do I care/do I still want the card. This has happened twice and both times I declined bc I felt like I may be getting played

While I won’t publicly name AH’s I have less faith in, I will state that I have strong confidence in REA, LOTG, Memory Lane, Sterling, and Collector Connection; please note that my failure to list an AH as having strong confidence does not mean I don’t trust and otherwise have concern about that AH, but rather this list represents who I feel most confident about if I were to be contacted in the manner asked by OP

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

My immediate response to this scenario (has happened a few times) is that the winner was a shill in cahoots with the seller and the price was unfairly run up. Someone "accidentially won" and there was an "oh shit" moment. Depending on the circumstances (partucular AH, etc.) I could be convinced otherwise.

My fraud antenna would be up big time if I was contacted 20 minutes after the auction ended. And that has happened on eBay. That's real fishy. (Somehow seller already knows that 20 minutes later that this is a non-payment situation?)

I'd day most of the time I walk away from these situations. Wait for the next one.

I usually have the same thoughts about shill bidding.

On the other hand as someone who sold a lot of cards in the early years of eBay. If I had multiples of the card I would always offer all the bidders at or above the price I would sell it for a chance at buying one. Sometimes I still do. In my experience it is about 50 50 on if they buy it from a second chance offer.

I have very little AH experiance.

[isiahfan]

Given this example with $100 bidding increments and you are the underbidder (Bidder 2):

Bidder 1 - $5000
Bidder 2 - $4900
Bidder 3 - $4000

I am sure the AH will contact you and ask if you are willing to pay the $4900....but if Bidder 1 bowed out...then really you should be getting it at $4100...which is what I would negotiate for. Whether or not you are successful could obviously sway your decision.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by isiahfan

Given this example with $100 bidding increments and you are the underbidder (Bidder 2):

Bidder 1 - $5000
Bidder 2 - $4900
Bidder 3 - $4000

I am sure the AH will contact you and ask if you are willing to pay the $4900....but if Bidder 1 bowed out...then really you should be getting it at $4100...which is what I would negotiate for. Whether or not you are successful could obviously sway your decision.

Except you and the AH never know if someone else would have bid between $4100 and $4800 but couldn't because the bid was already pushed higher than that amount. In these situations you really need to look at it as a buy it now rather than an auction because you'll never be able to tell how others people would have bid if bidder 1 was taken out of the picture.

[FrankWakefield]

Don't you guys mean $4000, instead of $4100????

[raulus]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Don't you guys mean $4000, instead of $4100????

I think with the bid increment rule, if bidder 3 is at $4,000, then the next highest bid would need to be at $4,100.

[raulus]

Only had it happen once.

It was an eBay auction. The seller had another one of the same player, same issue, same grade, and offered it to me for my final bid.

It was a price that worked for me, and so I went for it. Given that they were two different certs, I was less paranoid about getting played. And given that the price was 3 figures and not 4 or 5, I wasn’t too paranoid about some shill just taking me for a ride.

[jingram058]

Some years ago I watched a commonly available but obscure book on eBay go into a feeding frenzy. I contacted the under-bidder when the auction ended and offered the same book, which I had, and we agreed on the insanely bid up price. My conscience got the better of me, and I returned his cashier's check and he kept the $10 book I sent him.

eBay frowns mightily on this sort of thing today. Unless you're otherwise in the know, or have broken their encryption code, it's impossible to know who the bidders are.

[Fred]

I can recall this happening on ebay, but never an AH.

If it were an AH and the offer came a day or two after the auction, then I'd be wondering "what's up with this"? If it occurred a few weeks after the auction, then I'd be thinking the winning bidder reneged on the bid.

I've contacted a top AH (not one of the little guys) before and inquired about an item that didn't sell and it was made available for 30% less the minimum bid (no other fees, besides shipping attached). I was happy to pick it up.

It's probably up to the discretion of the AH to sell unbid lots and I'm pretty sure the AH would have to get the consignors permission or sell it for the cost of the item sans the seller's premium charged by the AH.

[whiteymet]

Back in the late 80's/early 90's there was an AH in PA called Centerfield Collectibles IIRC.

They had the last major league glove used by Richie Ashburn that I wanted for my extensive Ashburn collection. He was not yet in the HOF. I was second high bid. A few weeks went by and I got a call from Al Curcio who owned the AH and said the high bidder returned it because there was no way he had to know/ID this was Ashburn's glove and wanted to know if I wanted it.

I couldn't get to the AH fast enough! I had photos of him with the glove and I knew the history of it and how the consignor came to get it from Ashburn.

Years later when Whitey made it into the HOF the curator at the time called me to ask what Ashburn items I had and if they wanted to use them for the year long display they had for the new inductees if I would loan it to them.

My father and I drove up to Cooperstown with a handful of items. We got a private tour of the HOF including the basement where they have 10 times the things that are on display upstairs. They decided to use his glove I got from the auction. You can see it in the case over my right shoulder. in the photo below.

I ended up being part of the Ashburn family contingent for the induction weekend which included another private tour of the HOF early Saturday morning of the induction ( though not the basement this time) seats down in front for the induction and passes to the Otesaga where all the HOFer's stay during induction weekend.

So it turned out quite well for me!

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Except you and the AH never know if someone else would have bid between $4100 and $4800 but couldn't because the bid was already pushed higher than that amount. In these situations you really need to look at it as a buy it now rather than an auction because you'll never be able to tell how others people would have bid if bidder 1 was taken out of the picture.

Exactly! I was just about to post this as well. People always claim they should be able to buy it for one bid above the 3rd place bidder, but that's not fair either, for the reasons you outlined above.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

We have only done it once or twice when a higher end item went unpaid. Of course at that point it's at least several weeks after the auction when collection efforts have failed, but we don't like to do it as the optics of it aren't good for reasons already shared in this thread.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Exactly! I was just about to post this as well. People always claim they should be able to buy it for one bid above the 3rd place bidder, but that's not fair either, for the reasons you outlined above.

By auction law if you are removing a bidder you have to remove all of their bids, not just their last bid, which leaves you with the third place bidder scenario, but I see the point about the psychology of bidding.

[StraightRaceCards]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Back in the late 80's/early 90's there was an AH in PA called Centerfield Collectibles IIRC.

They had the last major league glove used by Richie Ashburn that I wanted for my extensive Ashburn collection. He was not yet in the HOF. I was second high bid. A few weeks went by and I got a call from Al Curcio who owned the AH and said the high bidder returned it because there was no way he had to know/ID this was Ashburn's glove and wanted to know if I wanted it.

I couldn't get to the AH fast enough! I had photos of him with the glove and I knew the history of it and how the consignor came to get it from Ashburn.

Years later when Whitey made it into the HOF the curator at the time called me to ask what Ashburn items I had and if they wanted to use them for the year long display they had for the new inductees if I would loan it to them.

My father and I drove up to Cooperstown with a handful of items. We got a private tour of the HOF including the basement where they have 10 times the things that are on display upstairs. They decided to use his glove I got from the auction. You can see it in the case over my right shoulder. in the photo below.

I ended up being part of the Ashburn family contingent for the induction weekend which included another private tour of the HOF early Saturday morning of the induction ( though not the basement this time) seats down in front for the induction and passes to the Otesaga where all the HOFer's stay during induction weekend.

So it turned out quite well for me!

What an AMAZING story! What a cool ending. I bet the tour of Cooperstown with the Ashburns was an awesome once in a lifetime experience!

[Leon]

I have been contacted a few times over the years, when a winner didn't pay, or something like that. It's a case by case basis for me. It hasn't happened often but definitely has.
.

[Exhibitman]

I agree with Ryan; I would only consider this from an AH whose management I know and trust. Otherwise, I have to figure on something nefarious.