1921 Herpolsheimers graded w/o mark

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by jggames

It was my post, and you keep bringing it up, so I guess I'll chime in again. It dispels your argument that the disco border was from 1970s.

"It doesn't look like a pattern from the 1920s, but an imitation for the 1970s."

It wasn't, it was from at least the 30s or 40s. It's why I put that paragraph in the post.

The dealer in May 1999 indicated they were printed in the 1970's. They still look like disco dance floors. Disco dance floors were designed in part after the dance floors of the 1930s and 1940s. Last time I checked discos were from the 1970s and thank goodness died out shortly after. Yes, they held out until past 1980. I remember "We are Family" from the 1979 Pirates. Couldn't stand their theme song or their loud uniforms, but I was a fan of the team despite the disco overload. Better dressed since, but no World Series.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

The dealer in May 1999 indicated they were printed in the 1970's. They still look like disco dance floors. Disco dance floors were designed in part after the dance floors of the 1930s and 1940s. Last time I checked discos were from the 1970s and thank goodness died out shortly after. Yes, they held out until past 1980. I remember "We are Family" from the 1979 Pirates. Couldn't stand their theme song or their loud uniforms, but I was a fan of the team despite the disco overload. Better dressed since, but no World Series.

Brian, perhaps you are suffering from "Saturday Night Fever."

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Brian, perhaps you are suffering from "Saturday Night Fever."

Saturday Night Fever on a Tuesday morning. Oh, now that is not illness, but a horror movie.

For those from Pittsburgh, this would have scared Chilly Bill Cardille. For the rest of you look him up. I miss him as well from 1250 am.

[molenick]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

I have been waiting for this response from you. You have the Holsum which has been known for years. That eliminates it from your argument.

Now, as for the Herpolsheimer "back" similarity on the website link:

https://archive.org/details/LanstonM...e/n23/mode/2up

A typographical specimen booklet containing borders and ornaments for casting on the Lanston Monotype Composition Caster, Lanston Monotype Type-Caster, Lanston Monotype Giant Caster and Monotype-Thompson Type-Caster. This booklet is from a Lanston Monotype specimen book (binder) bearing the general title "Monotype Type Faces." It is undated, but based on internal evidence elsewhere in the binder it is from the late 1930s or early 1940s.

So:

1.) An honest dealer waiving his hand over the case in May 1999 indicating the cards are fake.

2.) The pattern on the back that looked and still does like a disco floor or coffee table (also from the 1970s) pattern.

3.) Reference to above:

It is undated, but based on internal evidence elsewhere in the binder it is from the late 1930s or early 1940s.

4.) First fakes of pre-WWII ever. No.

5.) Possibility of a person who works as a printer who has knowledge of cards including a love of Pre-WWII back in the 1970s. What a concept. A printer who collects cards and the thought of producing a group of the cards with a pattern which he may have seen on a disco floor which inspired him. The guy would have access to paper from the 1920's. Still, paper from the 1920's and pattern from the late 1930's or 1940's. Oh, we have the basis of a movie here. Alan Alda, however, is too old and Mr. Mint can no longer sue him. Oh, but I digress. My accurate memory despite a cold and Stage 2 Astrocytoma (Brain Cancer) doesn't get in the way.

So, to be clear, the Holsum Bread cards are real even though the pattern was found in a binder from the 1930's-40's because they have been known for years (I guess longer than the 24 years the Herpolsheimer's cards have been known).

The Herpolsheimer's cards are fake because someone in the 1970's decided the best way to make fake 1921 cards was to use a pattern from the same binder which looks (to you) like a disco floor.

Plus the dealer said they were fake (you said "waiving" again, so I guess I will stop asking you to stop). Plus it is possible for a printer to make fakes. Plus fakes exist of other sets.

I guess we are back at an impasse.

And I hope you were kidding about having brain cancer (that would be in bad taste, but at least you wouldn't have it). But if it is true, I only wish the best for you.

[horzverti]

Originally Posted by molenick

So, to be clear, the Holsum Bread cards are real even though the pattern was found in a binder from the 1930's-40's because they have been known for years (I guess longer than the 24 years the Herpolsheimer's cards have been known).

The Herpolsheimer's cards are fake because someone in the 1970's decided the best way to make fake 1921 cards was to use a pattern from the same binder which looks (to you) like a disco floor.

Plus the dealer said they were fake (you said "waiving" again, so I guess I will stop asking you to stop). Plus it is possible for a printer to make fakes. Plus fakes exist of other sets.

I guess we are back at an impasse.

And I hope you were kidding about having brain cancer (that would be in bad taste, but at least you wouldn't have it). But if it is true, I only wish the best for you.

Brian,
You seem to have been a bit tongue-in-cheek with some of your posts, so I also hope that you are only kidding about brain cancer. I don't know you outside of this board, so I can't really gauge if this is your sense of humor or not. If you are serious, then I sincerely also wish you the best with beating it and recovery.

[Brian Van Horn]

Cold habit. Still waving hi.

The Holsum's were known to exist. The Herpolsheimer's outside of the 1916 set, were not, until the dealer in my case in May 1999 shook his hand over them and said they weren't authentic/real or just plain fake. Your choice.

"The Herpolsheimer's cards are fake because someone in the 1970's decided the best way to make fake 1921 cards was to use a pattern from the same binder which looks (to you) like a disco floor."

You're making an assumption. The person may have seen the dance floor and the pattern or saw the pattern before going to press. Oh, did I give my uncle's background away again? Oh, so sorry. LOL.

"Plus the dealer said they were fake (you said "waiving" again, so I guess I will stop asking you to stop). Plus it is possible for a printer to make fakes. Plus fakes exist of other sets."

Got it as long as printer is in reference to a person and not something next to a desktop or laptop.

"I guess we are back at an impasse."

Hallelujah! This from an Agnostic. When weren't we at an impasse?

"And I hope you were kidding about having brain cancer (that would be in bad taste, but at least you wouldn't have it). But if it is true, I only wish the best for you."

No, I announced that on Net54 on December 25, 2020 and feel free to e-mail me for a fascinating attempted effort to vote for Alfred E. Neuman on November 3, 2020 followed by brain surgery on December 1, 2020 at UPMC Presbyterian Hospital for a 2 cm+ by 1 cm + by 3 cm + brain tumor. I asked the doctors to wake me for the Tuesday afternoon game that day. Yes, December 1, 2020 was a Tuesday and because of Covid the game was rescheduled to 4:00 p.m. My brother said he was leaving because I wasn't waking up and I told him that I was awake and as I spoke the words JuJu Smith-Schuster caught a touchdown pass. Not a bad way to awaken.

Other members on this board now of this story.

Waving goodbye here and look forward to your next post.

The guy in the photo is not me.

[h2oya311]

The earth is flat (as I wave my hand over my phone).

In 20 years, I hope someone puts as much effort defending my statement as Brian has put into the statement from “the unnamed dealer” from 20 years ago…

This thread feels like an “argument” with a flat-Earther. No amount of evidence will dissuade them. Brian is exhibiting a deep distrust of many knowledgeable experts (akin to scientists) on this forum. How can we rebuild this trust, Brian? I am truly worried about you.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

The earth is flat (as I wave my hand over my phone).

In 20 years, I hope someone puts as much effort defending my statement as Brian has put into the statement from “the unnamed dealer” from 20 years ago…

This thread feels like an “argument” with a flat-Earther. No amount of evidence will dissuade them. Brian is exhibiting a deep distrust of every expert on this forum. How can we rebuild this trust, Brian? I am truly worried about you.

Please don't sprain your wrist.