1921 Herpolsheimers graded w/o mark

[jggames]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

Michael,

I also direct your attention to the advertisement border design. This was a knockoff of Holsum Bread, but a cheap one. It doesn't look like a pattern from the 1920s, but an imitation for the 1970s.

Wow, this is an all-time thread. Like others I enjoy printmaking so, FWIW, with a fairly quick search I was able to find both borders available in the 1930s and 40s, so the border in question was definitely available before the 1970s.

https://archive.org/details/LanstonM...e/n23/mode/2up

A typographical specimen booklet containing borders and ornaments for casting on the Lanston Monotype Composition Caster, Lanston Monotype Type-Caster, Lanston Monotype Giant Caster and Monotype-Thompson Type-Caster. This booklet is from a Lanston Monotype specimen book (binder) bearing the general title "Monotype Type Faces." It is undated, but based on internal evidence elsewhere in the binder it is from the late 1930s or early 1940s.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by jggames

Wow, this is an all-time thread. Like others I enjoy printmaking so, FWIW, with a fairly quick search I was able to find both borders available in the 1930s and 40s, so the border in question was definitely available before the 1970s.

https://archive.org/details/LanstonM...e/n23/mode/2up

A typographical specimen booklet containing borders and ornaments for casting on the Lanston Monotype Composition Caster, Lanston Monotype Type-Caster, Lanston Monotype Giant Caster and Monotype-Thompson Type-Caster. This booklet is from a Lanston Monotype specimen book (binder) bearing the general title "Monotype Type Faces." It is undated, but based on internal evidence elsewhere in the binder it is from the late 1930s or early 1940s.

Thank you for the link. That is some beautiful artwork pictured.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Thank you for the link. That is some beautiful artwork pictured.

It certainly is.

I was going to post that the e121 cards were typographed.


As far as faking offset transfers, it's not easy. If you were newly typographing a set of cards, making offset transfers while the cards were still wet would be very easy.

There are exceptions, some inks may never completely dry. And some are more susceptible to chemical alteration.
Like the vegetable oil based inks many magazines are printed with today. They've improved, but SI from around the time they switched were easily damaged by handling them.

And at least one formulation of ink used in the 1870's-80's can leave a transfer from weight placed on it during shipping.

Generally though, the inks were well formulated to dry well and quickly, and don't leave transfers post factory.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by steve B

It certainly is.

I was going to post that the e121 cards were typographed.


As far as faking offset transfers, it's not easy. If you were newly typographing a set of cards, making offset transfers while the cards were still wet would be very easy.

There are exceptions, some inks may never completely dry. And some are more susceptible to chemical alteration.
Like the vegetable oil based inks many magazines are printed with today. They've improved, but SI from around the time they switched were easily damaged by handling them.

And at least one formulation of ink used in the 1870's-80's can leave a transfer from weight placed on it during shipping.

Generally though, the inks were well formulated to dry well and quickly, and don't leave transfers post factory.

Steve,

Thank you for this post.

[frankbmd]

Does a Sovereign Reverse Have an Open Border?

With such a fine collection of borders it is a shame that Lanston went out of business along with their Monotype Composition Casters et al.
Now we have to deal with the issue of open borders.



Indeed it does not have an open border.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by jggames

Wow, this is an all-time thread. Like others I enjoy printmaking so, FWIW, with a fairly quick search I was able to find both borders available in the 1930s and 40s, so the border in question was definitely available before the 1970s.

https://archive.org/details/LanstonM...e/n23/mode/2up

A typographical specimen booklet containing borders and ornaments for casting on the Lanston Monotype Composition Caster, Lanston Monotype Type-Caster, Lanston Monotype Giant Caster and Monotype-Thompson Type-Caster. This booklet is from a Lanston Monotype specimen book (binder) bearing the general title "Monotype Type Faces." It is undated, but based on internal evidence elsewhere in the binder it is from the late 1930s or early 1940s.

Jason,

6M434N I would agree with about the Holsum Bread.

Now, the 6 Pt. 635N; Also, 6M635N is close, but....and leaves me with one question of course......with the also in the reference, was what was the variable between designs?

I apologize, but I was told these were made in the 1970's by the dealer (told doesn't mean he made them) and the one on the back of the "1921" still looks like the design of a disco floor or even some coffee tables from the 1970's which may have been the inspiration for the design.

[Brian Van Horn]

Jason,

Can I direct your attention to the synopsis in the white of the website below the page you offered in your information?


https://archive.org/details/LanstonM...e/n23/mode/2up

"A typographical specimen booklet containing borders and ornaments for casting on the Lanston Monotype Composition Caster, Lanston Monotype Type-Caster, Lanston Monotype Giant Caster and Monotype-Thompson Type-Caster. This booklet is from a Lanston Monotype specimen book (binder) bearing the general title "Monotype Type Faces." It is undated, but based on internal evidence elsewhere in the binder it is from the late 1930s or early 1940s."

I apologize, but this paragraph eliminates the design.

[molenick]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

Jason,

Can I direct your attention to the synopsis in the white of the website below the page you offered in your information


https://archive.org/details/LanstonM...e/n23/mode/2up

"A typographical specimen booklet containing borders and ornaments for casting on the Lanston Monotype Composition Caster, Lanston Monotype Type-Caster, Lanston Monotype Giant Caster and Monotype-Thompson Type-Caster. This booklet is from a Lanston Monotype specimen book (binder) bearing the general title "Monotype Type Faces." It is undated, but based on internal evidence elsewhere in the binder it is from the late 1930s or early 1940s."

I apologize, but this paragraph eliminates the design.

It eliminates it from being a disco-inspired design from the 1970s. It does not mean the design was not in use earlier. Design 6M434N matches the Holsum Bread design. So either your Holsum Bread card is fake or it is possible that a design used in the late 1930s was also used in the 1920s.

[jggames]

Originally Posted by molenick

It eliminates it from being a disco-inspired design from the 1970s. It does not mean the design was not in use earlier. Design 6M434N matches the Holsum Bread design. So either your Holsum Bread card is fake or it is possible that a design used in the late 1930s was also used in the 1920s.

Exactly.

[Brian Van Horn]

[QUOTE=jggames;2392131]Exactly.[/QUOTE


Nope.

[molenick]

I don't know what "nope" means in this case. Please elaborate.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by molenick

It eliminates it from being a disco-inspired design from the 1970s. It does not mean the design was not in use earlier. Design 6M434N matches the Holsum Bread design. So either your Holsum Bread card is fake or it is possible that a design used in the late 1930s was also used in the 1920s.

Nope.

[Yoda]

And the beat goes on. Cher.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by Yoda

And the beat goes on. Cher.

Well, Cher was big in the 1970's and the design on the back of the "1921" Herpolsheimer's would have fit in well as a floor design for her performances.