Potentially the most unpredictable Playoffs ever

[Peter_Spaeth]

Did he run through a stop sign? On replay it's hard to tell when the coach changed his mind.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Did he run through a stop sign? On replay it's hard to tell when the coach changed his mind.

+1

[Shoeless Moe]

1. He should know which outfielders to run on.

2. He was running with his head down as he was rounding 3rd, should have been watching the coach, so intentional or unintentional he F'd up not looking or blowing through it.

3. And why risk it, would have been 1st & 3rd nobody out, and 2 batters, one being yourself, just rocked Scherzer. So you are probably scoring from 3rd anyway.

So Walker F'd up one way or the other....or the other.


Watch the 3 min mark, and especially on the reply.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojfJo8x6y_Q

He's not even looking at the coach. Coach had it well up before he was running past him.

[nolemmings]

Perezchica waved him home and then changed his mind– halfway down the third-base line. Ideally Walker would have had his head up and been able to get back to third, but the coach could have handled it better in the first place. It isn’t just knowing the outfielders’ arms– the runner does not know if there was a bobble or a slip and is relying on the coach’s eyes.

As for the game situation, I don’t disagree that the standard call there is to hold him at third. But the Diamondbacks play chaos baseball and try to put pressure on the defense as much as possible by forcing them to make a play. Unfortunately, the ball took a room service hop and was handled cleanly by Garcia right in stride and he made the play. Worst case happened, but it still left a man on second with one out; i.e., in scoring position with a faster replacement runner.

Walker is neither a fast nor a slow runner, so I can understand why he would bear down and not look up once he saw he was being waved home. I assume that if he picked up the stop sign– which again was a change by the coach– he would have made it back to third. Then again, I remember a rookie Joe Mauer facing that same situation in a regular season game and getting hurt when he slammed on the brakes to get back. Hurt as in knee injury and surgery, a 21 year-old hitting .300 with pop and gone for most of the year– thanks a lot coach.

Dbacks looked like they were pressing a bit last night, but they had other chances over the next seven innings. So yeah, Walker can own most of that momentum killer, but he was not alone.

[Peter_Spaeth]

And if he held up and Scherzer got out of the inning people would be complaining they weren't aggressive enough. That's baseball.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Perezchica waved him home and then changed his mind– halfway down the third-base line. Ideally Walker would have had his head up and been able to get back to third, but the coach could have handled it better in the first place. It isn’t just knowing the outfielders’ arms– the runner does not know if there was a bobble or a slip and is relying on the coach’s eyes.

I think like you said because of that line drive being a one hopper to Garcia and there was no bobble or anything that is why the coach changed his mind. He was hoping for anything but that, and the tailor made one hop made him change his mind and threw up the stop sign, but loooked to be in plenty of time for Walker to see it. Looking down makes no sense, that's how guys who are not fast run.

And to Peter's point on saying people would complain about not being aggressive, NOT with nobody out. Had there been one or 2 outs then yes you can make that argument. With nobdy out unless you are Carroll or Marte maybe, but don't be aggressive with your 4 hitter.

He stops there you got 1st and 3rd nobody out, Scherzer just got rocked twice. In all liklihood the Rangers are then giving up the runner on third anyway to get the double play. So Walker scores on almost anything the next 2 batters do. And Scherzer ain't the K machine he once was so again know what is going on.

Maybe a little less looking in the dugout, patting yourself on the back, waving your arms (like the Phillies, and basically every team) and how 'bout thinking about the situation and not thinking about your hit.

It changed the game.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Not convinced. Suppose he had scored. You don't think people would be saying gutsy call running on Garcia, great aggressive play, blah blah? Nobody would be saying oh but he should have held up. Dude nailed him with a perfect throw. This happens. He isn't going to make that throw, or have a perfect bounce, most of the time.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

I think like you said because of that line drive being a one hopper to Garcia and there was no bobble or anything that is why the coach changed his mind. He was hoping for anything but that, and the tailor made one hop made him change his mind and threw up the stop sign, but loooked to be in plenty of time for Walker to see it. Looking down makes no sense, that's how guys who are not fast run.

And to Peter's point on saying people would complain about not being aggressive, NOT with nobody out. Had there been one or 2 outs then yes you can make that argument. With nobdy out unless you are Carroll or Marte maybe, but don't be aggressive with your 4 hitter.

He stops there you got 1st and 3rd nobody out, Scherzer just got rocked twice. In all liklihood the Rangers are then giving up the runner on third anyway to get the double play. So Walker scores on almost anything the next 2 batters do. And Scherzer ain't the K machine he once was so again know what is going on.

Maybe a little less looking in the dugout, patting yourself on the back, waving your arms (like the Phillies, and basically every team) and how 'bout thinking about the situation and not thinking about your hit.

It changed the game.

I disagree. The coach should have assumed the play would be made cleanly and not waved him home, especially as the standard play would be to hold in that situation. There was no need to start with an initial wave home in "hopes" there would be a defensive slip up.

As for knowing game situations, it cuts both ways and your argument is self-serving. Of course Walker knows the game situation, but then again, the whole purpose of having a third-base coach is to have a reliable second set of eyes and a command structure of what to do in real time. If anything, I would argue that Walker would have assumed he would be held and started digging--with head down--once he saw the wave home. It is not necessarily incumbent upon him to wonder--gee coach, are you sure?-- in that situation.

Finally, Walker is incredibly unassuming and not into his performance at the cost of game mismanagement, so your insinuation that he was somehow clueless because he was thinking about himself is baseless.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Perezchica waved him home and then changed his mind– halfway down the third-base line.

Are you sure about this? I don't recall seeing a replay with a wide enough angle, but it looked to me like Walker wasn't even at third yet when the stop sign came up.

Garcia has one of the strongest arms in baseball, and Walker has to know that. Also, as has been said, Scherzer struggling and nobody out. At least look back or at the coach again before putting your head down and barreling home.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Are you sure about this? I don't recall seeing a replay with a wide enough angle, but it looked to me like Walker wasn't even at third yet when the stop sign came up.

Garcia has one of the strongest arms in baseball, and Walker has to know that. Also, as has been said, Scherzer struggling and nobody out. At least look back or at the coach again before putting your head down and barreling home.

No, I'm not sure--hence my initial post Look, there is no doubt he could have looked up at some point upon crossing third or so and probably got back to the base. I just find it to be a bit of armchair managing to say that what Walker did was stupid and done without any reason. Between the aggressive philosophy the team has used all year and the fact that a coach first emphatically waved him to score, I can see why it happened the way it did, and as a Dback fan, I cannot point to Walker as a goat there. With seven innings left in a 0-0 game, it was just a good baseball play by the Rangers. Handled perfectly with two perfect bounces-- one to Garcia and the other to Heim. C'est la vie.

P.S. It would have been interesting if Marquez called balls and strikes with a respectable degree of accuracy.

[jayshum]

Garcia is not starting tonight for the Rangers. Big loss especially if he's out for the rest of the Series.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

No, I'm not sure--hence my initial post Look, there is no doubt he could have looked up at some point upon crossing third or so and probably got back to the base. I just find it to be a bit of armchair managing to say that what Walker did was stupid and done without any reason. Between the aggressive philosophy the team has used all year and the fact that a coach first emphatically waved him to score, I can see why it happened the way it did, and as a Dback fan, I cannot point to Walker as a goat there. With seven innings left in a 0-0 game, it was just a good baseball play by the Rangers. Handled perfectly with two perfect bounces-- one to Garcia and the other to Heim. C'est la vie.

P.S. It would have been interesting if Marquez called balls and strikes with a respectable degree of accuracy.

I agree with you about the ump last night. Totally inconsistent. Remember the call later in the game on (I think it was) Moreno? About half a foot outside and called a strike. Smh

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Are you sure about this? I don't recall seeing a replay with a wide enough angle, but it looked to me like Walker wasn't even at third yet when the stop sign came up.

Garcia has one of the strongest arms in baseball, and Walker has to know that. Also, as has been said, Scherzer struggling and nobody out. At least look back or at the coach again before putting your head down and barreling home.

You are correct, he wasn't even at third when he put his head down, just bad baseball....even if he was safe....why risk it....nobody out, men on first and third, pitcher getting rocked.

It's just bad baseball to go home on that unless you are positive you are scoring. I don't care if that is how Arizona plays. The coach obviously knew he should hold. And yes his initial waving him home was wrong, but he caught his error before Walker touched third, Walker could have and should have seen that and hit the breaks.

How often does the runner score from 2nd and no outs in extra innings, I don't have stats but from watching this year seems like 50% or better. So a runner on 3rd nobody out has to be in the 75-80% neighborhood if not higher.

Walker F'd up.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

You are correct, he wasn't even at third when he put his head down, just bad baseball....even if he was safe....why risk it....nobody out, men on first and third, pitcher getting rocked.

It's just bad baseball to go home on that unless you are positive you are scoring. I don't care if that is how Arizona plays. The coach obviously knew he should hold. And yes his initial waving him home was wrong, but he caught his error before Walker touched third, Walker could have and should have seen that and hit the breaks.

How often does the runner score from 2nd and no outs in extra innings, I don't have stats but from watching this year seems like 50% or better. So a runner on 3rd nobody out has to be in the 75-80% neighborhood if not higher.

Walker F'd up.

The local press is throwing shade at both Walker and Perezchica for the play, although Walker appears to own it (I would expect nothing less), saying he froze for a second and tried to make up for the poor jump once he saw he was being waved in. Some radioheads question why Perezchica would have ever given the wave sign-- given the situation you presume hold and change to wave only if/when you see a misplay.

Of course, no one in AZ has the insight of some of the great baseball minds here on net54. Such a pity.