Contemporary Baseball Era Committee for Managers/Executives/Umpires for Hall of Fame

[packs]

I think one of the hardest criteria to understand for the HOF is the manager. What makes someone a HOF manager? I'm pretty sure the magic number is winning three World Series. I don't think there's a single manager to win three other than Bochy (who isn't yet eligible) that isn't in the HOF.

But what else? I thought Cito Gaston sounded like a silly nomination but what really separates him from Tommy Lasorda? They both won two World Series titles and that's all there really is to say about either of them.

Then there's Whitey Herzog. Why is he in? He won a single World Series and what's really separating him and Jim Leyland?

[brianp-beme]

Judge Landis was caught on camera with this reaction to any potential candidates nominated from this ballot.

Brian

[theshleps]

Whether Leyland, Piniella, Johnson, Gaston get in will be political depending on who the voting committee is, what teams they favor, personal relationships with the candidates etc. We have seen that before and will see it again and again. As an autograph collector I try to get each of the guys before the vote just in case they get in and the price goes crazy but then I also get stuck with lots I do not need

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I think one of the hardest criteria to understand for the HOF is the manager. What makes someone a HOF manager? I'm pretty sure the magic number is winning three World Series. I don't think there's a single manager to win three other than Bochy (who isn't yet eligible) that isn't in the HOF.

But what else? I thought Cito Gaston sounded like a silly nomination but what really separates him from Tommy Lasorda? They both won two World Series titles and that's all there really is to say about either of them.

Then there's Whitey Herzog. Why is he in? He won a single World Series and what's really separating him and Jim Leyland?

Yeah almost nothing of what they do on a day to day basis can be measured. I think it's very hard to know who is a good manager unless you really follow a team closely. Wins of course and even WS are probably much more a function of the team than the manager.

I think Piniella is most likely of this group to get in. Bill White seems to have a great reputation so maybe him too.

[Misunderestimated]

I expect Bill White to get in ... He's pushing 90 so it would nice if they put him in now. i think he's inevitable.

[FrankWakefield]

Of the nominees, in my opinion, Bill White should get in, and probably will get in.

I am fairly sure that I've suggested (argued) with folks here about how someone should be in because he was better than someone else who already got in... And I wish I hadn't. Think about it... "having made one mistake, well hot damn, let's make another mistake." I do think that there are players in the Hall who shouldn't be in. We can't take them out. We don't fix it by adding more marginal (or slightly below) players. Truthfully, we can't do anything but discuss it here, and whine about it with folks we encounter.

White's WAR is about 3 times what Pinella's is. And that should not matter. Connie Mack's WAR was half of Pinella's. Mack should be in as a manager, and moreso because he "trained" a bunch of players who later became managers and coaches, all of whom were better baseball men for having learned from Mr. Mack. Ditto for John McGraw, what a genealogy tree Mr. McGraw would have. And ditto for Branch Rickey (WAR 0.6). The game is better now because of Mr. White's efforts in the Commissioner's office. I don't know of much that Pinella did that made the game better.

[The Detroit Collector]

Biased opinion, but I want Jim in.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Pinella and White wouldn't bother me. I'd put Froemming in long before West.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Pinella and White wouldn't bother me. I'd put Froemming in long before West.

Bruce Froemming is a HOF umpire, incredible career, 50 years in the game, incredible integrity, respected the game, was fair, and never made it about himself.
The other guy who should get in is John McSherry, RIP, and Eric Gregg, RIP.

[Misunderestimated]

I think the two best GM-Execs of the contemporary ERA are not on the ballot:
Theo Epstein and Brian Cashman.
Both are relatively young and Cashman (who might be the most perfectly named figure in baseball history) is still an active GM.

[G1911]

What I am missing? White was a league president for five years. Is there some huge achievement I'm not aware of? What's the merit here?

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I'd put Froemming in long before West.

I was very surprised that Froemming's name was not on the ballot, especially when considering Eddie Montague made the cut. Nothing against Montague, a fine umpire in his own right, but a distant second to Froemming in my mind. I would much rather have seen Froemming on this ballot over Cito Gaston. I find it a little weird that they elect umpires in the first place, but since that road's been paved, leaving off the name of one of the best to ever do it is a puzzling move.

I kind of expected West to be in the conversation. Love him or hate him, his longevity will get him in. If evaluating managers is tough, evaluating the HOF chances of umpires is even tougher, but I think it mostly comes down to longevity and postseasons, and West has those. I'm not really advocating for his induction, but I get why he's on the ballot, and why he will most likely get in, if not this time then the next time umpires are considered.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by The Detroit Collector

Biased opinion, but I want Jim in.

I can't see it as a Tiger's diehard.

I spent several a night post game with him and the coaching staff at Ye Olde Saloon in Royal Oak. They would come in and drink a few while Jim stepped outside every 30 minutes for a smoke. The man is a super nice guy and as a person I have not a single bad thing to say about him. He will chat with anyone that sits next to him.

Jim himself out of the picture, the actual post season work he did on the Tigs was rough. He was a regular season manager and couldn't plan a WS game for much. There are a few years there in which he had possibly one of the greatest starting pitching staffs in modern baseball (relievers/closers were sometimes questionable). He needed to clean up his hitting coaches and never did. It was just post-season failures one after another.

A great guy, but not HOF. Not a fan of any on that list, but it is now the Hall of pretty decent nice guys...so with that qualification who knows?