Baseball Hall of Fame Rookie Cards Discussion

[Shankweather]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Here is a link to the Rookie Card list:

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...s+hall+of+fame


Here is a link to the Earliest Collectible list:

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...llectibles+hof

This is awesome work Phil. I see in it a dozen ways you and I disagree on identifying rookie cards, even post-war (Jackie Robinson?), but your methodology is consistent and has a lot of support in the pre-war community. Post-war collectors will think you're nuts, but that's ok. Part of the fun of my 1882-2023 collection is I get to butt heads with all of the above.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Jay:

The Cameo Pepsin Selee isn’t on the rookie card list simply because it’s not a card. It’s also not the earliest collectible of any kind (1887 Oshkosh team cabinet) in order to appear on the other list. However, if you eliminate team images, the Cameo might very well be his rookie from an individual standpoint. I never pursued that to be sure but off the top of my head, I can’t think of anything else that pictured him individually between 1887 and 1897.

Oops, meant to say Whitehead & Hoag Selee, not Cameo Pepsin.

[h2oya311]

I’ll throw my hat in the ring. It’s far from complete (from a shared images perspective), but the “checklist” I have for each baseball HOFer is about as good as it gets. I doubt there’s much I’ve missed over the years. Half the fun has been finding and discovering new items to add.

Anyway, I started with Phil’s amazing research and have added about two decades worth of additional research and perusing AHs and eBay listings that would put most people to shame. The website is my attempt to give any type of “rookie” collector something that speaks to them that could be construed as a “rookie” and meet at least one definition. If you have a spare couple of minutes/hours, enjoy my website and let me know if you have any proposed edits (or images I don’t already have). You might find some stuff you never knew existed:

https://imageevent.com/derekgranger/hofearliest

I probably need another 6 months or so to “finish” the project. I’ve supplied early images for about 1/3 of the 342 members of the Cooperstown HOFers. Some players will have upwards of 20+ images devoted to that player - like Cobb:

https://imageevent.com/derekgranger/hofearliest/tycobb

And Jay, fear not! Your amazing Cameo Pepsin “On Time Starch” Pin of Sellee will be the featured collectible for him since I prefer the earliest individual item for each HOFer for my personal collection. If you ever…

Happy collecting!

[bcbgcbrcb]

Amazing stuff, Derek. I just looked at a few scattered listings, you have done such a comprehensive job between images and identifications. Once complete, this will be a monumental accomplishment (as if it isn’t already).

Keep up the great work!

[Baseball Rarities]

Phil and Derek - Awesome work. I only follow a few players and know how difficult it is to come up with this information. I cannot imagine how much work it is to thoroughly cover so many!

[Peter_Spaeth]

The most amazing part of Derek's site is not the cards -- which of course is a phenomenal enough contribution -- but all the early photos which in so many cases predate the cards. Just astonishing work and attention to detail. One of the great labors of love this hobby has seen, and a resource second to none.

[Shankweather]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

I’ll throw my hat in the ring. It’s far from complete (from a shared images perspective), but the “checklist” I have for each baseball HOFer is about as good as it gets. I doubt there’s much I’ve missed over the years. Half the fun has been finding and discovering new items to add.

Anyway, I started with Phil’s amazing research and have added about two decades worth of additional research and perusing AHs and eBay listings that would put most people to shame. The website is my attempt to give any type of “rookie” collector something that speaks to them that could be construed as a “rookie” and meet at least one definition. If you have a spare couple of minutes/hours, enjoy my website and let me know if you have any proposed edits (or images I don’t already have). You might find some stuff you never knew existed:

https://imageevent.com/derekgranger/hofearliest

I probably need another 6 months or so to “finish” the project. I’ve supplied early images for about 1/3 of the 342 members of the Cooperstown HOFers. Some players will have upwards of 20+ images devoted to that player - like Cobb:

https://imageevent.com/derekgranger/hofearliest/tycobb

And Jay, fear not! Your amazing Cameo Pepsin “On Time Starch” Pin of Sellee will be the featured collectible for him since I prefer the earliest individual item for each HOFer for my personal collection. If you ever…

Happy collecting!

I've already spent hours on your site Derek, and I did in fact find things I never knew existed. Great resource.

[oldjudge]

Amazing work by Phil and Derek! The hobby owes you both a debt of gratitude.

[Shankweather]

There are a lot of pre-war sets that have multi-year distributions, but people have done a lot of work figuring out what years they actually came out.

Such as:
1886-90 N172 Old Judge
1902-11 W600 Sporting Life
1908-10 E91 American Caramel
1934-36 Batter-Up
1934-36 Diamond Stars

Has any similar work been done for 1909-11 T206? The variations where the team changes are easy to tell which one came out first (Lundgren, Dahlen, Demmitt, etc.). But does anyone know, for example, which Frank Chance came out first: batting, portrait red, or portrait yellow? Or if Piedmont was made in 1909 but Hindu not until 1910, or whatever. I can't imagine there would be any way to tell, but people have studied the heck out of that set so you never know.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Shankweather

There are a lot of pre-war sets that have multi-year distributions, but people have done a lot of work figuring out what years they actually came out.

Such as:
1886-90 N172 Old Judge
1902-11 W600 Sporting Life
1908-10 E91 American Caramel
1934-36 Batter-Up
1934-36 Diamond Stars

Has any similar work been done for 1909-11 T206? The variations where the team changes are easy to tell which one came out first (Lundgren, Dahlen, Demmitt, etc.). But does anyone know, for example, which Frank Chance came out first: batting, portrait red, or portrait yellow? Or if Piedmont was made in 1909 but Hindu not until 1910, or whatever. I can't imagine there would be any way to tell, but people have studied the heck out of that set so you never know.

I haven't looked at that specifically, but for most HOFers with multiple cards they usually came with different series, and the approximate dates for the series are sort of known. Like 150s were 1909, 350s 1910 and 350-460s 1911. It gets a bit messy, since many individual poses crossed over and were in multiple series. Like all but 12 or so of the cards that were in the 150 series also appear in the 350 series.

Breaking it down by brand is more complex.

[Shankweather]

Tim Cathey to the rescue:

https://t206resource.com/Print%20Group%201.html

But I think the juice is generally not worth the squeeze with these, as far as determining rookie cards. Except for team changes, I think the simple solution is to consider all T206 subjects to have 1909 release dates. I don't think most people have a desire to declare Piedmont 150s rookie cards but Piedmont 350-460s not.

EDIT: But it does look like Chance's red portrait card was the first to be released. I know we're settled on E107 being Chance's rookie card (or W600 if you're into that), but if T206 was his rookie card, do we think there would be support for only putting the label on the red portrait? It first was released in 1909 but the batting and yellow portrait cards not until 1910.