Heritage Auctions - Boston Garters

raulus · #1 10-03-2023, 04:43 PM

Heritage absolutely should�ve done a much better job of managing the closing process, including linking the lots. Or if not that, then more clearly explaining precisely how the closing process would work.

At the same time, Powell is clearly a big time collector. He craps bigger than me. And bigger than almost all of us. Put together. And not just that, but he is obviously a great professional in his field. And this set obviously meant a great deal to him. It wasn�t some little lot that he was hoping to maybe pick up a good deal if nobody else bid, but didn�t really care if he lost. He wanted this, and wanted it badly. Enough to pay the better part of a cool million to get it. So the stakes are high.

Additionally, auctions are pretty final. When the hammer falls, barring shenanigans and nonsense and software outages, when it�s over, it�s over. Finished. No going back. You only get one bite at the apple. So the stakes are that much higher to make sure that you don�t get caught off guard by stupid nonsense like the closing process.

In this case, the format was obviously not normal. Given the stakes, how do you not do some digging into the rules? How do you not think through the closing mechanics and figure out how you might get screwed?

Before Powell walks into a courtroom, I�ve got to think that he prepares religiously. He knows what�s going to happen before it happens. He�s researched similar cases. Practiced his arguments. Refined his wording. Anticipated everything that the other side will do, and he�s ready to counter. Nothing is left to chance.

Given all of this, if it was me, I would have made darn sure that I knew how the closing process worked. I would�ve been obsessing about it for weeks before the close. I would�ve lost sleep having nightmares about how someone was going to outwit me and I would lose. I would�ve called up Heritage and asked them about anything that wasn�t clear. If the morons I talked to on the phone didn�t answer my questions to my satisfaction, I would�ve moved up the chain of command until someone got me the real answers. Assuming that I know how it was going to work seems like you�re living dangerously. You�re hoping that it will work the way you think it will work. I don�t understand how you don�t nail it all down so that you don�t get screwed by the closing format working against you.

Obviously hindsight is 20/20. And I�m not trying to blame Powell. I just don�t understand the lack of serious investigation into and preparation for the closing mechanics, given how badly he wanted it. Maybe he was busy at work on a case. Maybe other auctions were just as important and took up his attention. Whatever the reason, I just don�t understand this element. But maybe I�m just a paranoid obsessive who doesn�t like to lose auctions for stuff I really want due to nonsense.

Peter_Spaeth · #2 10-03-2023, 04:52 PM

IMO absent some very specific disclosure to the contrary, it's perfectly reasonable to assume the world's leading auction house running a set against the individual cards is not going to freeze out the set bidders while the individual lots are still live.

calvindog · #3 10-03-2023, 04:55 PM

If anyone actually thinks this auction went according to plan, went down appropriately, I can�t help you as you�re beyond help. I can assure you this theory doesn�t hold up under two minutes of questioning. That I�m even typing this gives me less faith in the hobby as it should be that obvious.

And Powell isn�t at fault here. Could he have done more? Yes. Should he have had to do more? No.

Centauri · #4 10-03-2023, 06:49 PM

Can anyone point to some part, any part of the auction that did *not* go according to the rules established before the auction began?

Seems like a lot of people disagree with the auction format, but the rules were known and followed perfectly.

Snowman · #5 10-03-2023, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centauri

Can anyone point to some part, any part of the auction that did *not* go according to the rules established before the auction began?

Seems like a lot of people disagree with the auction format, but the rules were known and followed perfectly.

No, of course not.

LOUCARDFAN · #6 10-03-2023, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centauri

Can anyone point to some part, any part of the auction that did *not* go according to the rules established before the auction began?

Seems like a lot of people disagree with the auction format, but the rules were known and followed perfectly.

When the person bidding on the set is locked out because the 30 minute timer elapsed AND is informed that he was the winner of the lot all the while the individual lots were still open to be bid on is NOT part of the auction format. Their terms plainly says that the higher dollar amount of the individual cards vs the set price is the winner BUT when one group can bid while the other is locked out and unable to bid it changes the whole auction dynamic.

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JeremyW · #7 10-03-2023, 07:45 PM

Seems to me that the consignor suffered the most. Probably $10-50K. more in bids, at least.

Peter_Spaeth · #8 10-03-2023, 08:05 PM

Meanwhile, no update from Powell, so presumably Heritage has not budged.

Centauri · #9 10-03-2023, 09:13 PM

The auctions rules stated the 2 auctions would be run independently. If the aggregate of the individual winners was higher than the winner of the set auction, then the individual would get the cards. So yes, each side would have an auction winner declared, then the higher aggregate would take delivery. The set winner was supposed to be given notice that they �won� their leg. As to when an individual auction ends, that was also established before the auction began - after entering the final bidding, any lot that goes 30 minutes without a bid will be closed. So that rule was also followed correctly.

Again, there never was an error in the administration of the auction. The rules were set beforehand, and there were no deviations. Most, maybe all agree this is not the best way to maximize value. But the auction house should not be held to blame here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUCARDFAN

When the person bidding on the set is locked out because the 30 minute timer elapsed AND is informed that he was the winner of the lot all the while the individual lots were still open to be bid on is NOT part of the auction format. Their terms plainly says that the higher dollar amount of the individual cards vs the set price is the winner BUT when one group can bid while the other is locked out and unable to bid it changes the whole auction dynamic.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Casey2296 · #10 10-03-2023, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centauri

The auctions rules stated the 2 auctions would be run independently. If the aggregate of the individual winners was higher than the winner of the set auction, then the individual would get the cards. So yes, each side would have an auction winner declared, then the higher aggregate would take delivery. The set winner was supposed to be given notice that they �won� their leg. As to when an individual auction ends, that was also established before the auction began - after entering the final bidding, any lot that goes 30 minutes without a bid will be closed. So that rule was also followed correctly.

Again, there never was an error in the administration of the auction. The rules were set beforehand, and there were no deviations. Most, maybe all agree this is not the best way to maximize value. But the auction house should not be held to blame here.

The auction house can 100% be accountable, this is the most irresponsible way to run an individual/aggregate auction, especially with such a significant set.

Look at the example kindly provided above to see the standard for running auctions like this, it's pretty simple and keeps everybody informed, maximizes seller return, and fair to all parties bidding.

No, Heritage stepped in a bucket of manure for not vetting their own process, furthermore the way they treated Powell post shitshow was weak and unprofessional. Not to mention the awkward position people like Aaron were subjected to. At the very least they owe the parties involved a personal apology.

When an AH treats longtime million dollar clients like that how do you think they view normal folks like us?

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