Heritage Auctions - Boston Garters

[Centauri]

It seems pretty clear to me that this was set up from the start to be 2 separate, unrelated auctions. Both auctions were subject of the standard auction rules - if no bids after 30 mins, the auction is closed. Once both auctions were complete, the higher number would get the cards. At least one individual card bidder recognized that during the auction, so it was possible to understand the arrangement. (Someone said they texted their friend at 11:26 that the set bidder was going to lose to the individual).

The only way to ensure ownership of the cards was to bid both ways. As weird as that is, that was clearly the rules at the start.

[insidethewrapper]

If you can't outbid yourself, then I don't see how redoing the auction will change anything. the individual cards will be higher than the set. The rules were clear, the higher between individual and set wins. Also the rules are you can't outbid yourself, these are not new rules. Seems clear to me .

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

If you can't outbid yourself, then I don't see how redoing the auction will change anything. the individual cards will be higher than the set. The rules were clear, the higher between individual and set wins. Also the rules are you can't outbid yourself, these are not new rules. Seems clear to me .

If I'm understanding correctly, your take is that the individual cards will be higher than the set because Heritage intended it from the outset, knowing full well that (1) extended bidding on individual lots would continue after the complete set closed, and (2) competition on the complete set would be limited to one deep-pocketed bidder, so it was always guaranteed to close sooner.

That approach doesn't make sense for a business where the goal is to promote competition and maximize the sale price. The rules are that "you can't outbid yourself," but surely the auction format is meant to leave room for the complete-set bidder to outbid the individual lots as the price increases. No?

[insidethewrapper]

When this format has been used by other auction houses, were you able to outbid yourself on set or individual cards ?

[molenick]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

When this format has been used by other auction houses, were you able to outbid yourself on set or individual cards ?

I believe some auction houses let you put in a straight bid that is higher than you need to bid to become the highest bidder.

I think in Heritage you can put in a maximum bid, but that bid just takes you to the next increment needed to be the high bidder (on that lot). It is then used as needed to top subsequent bids.

[molenick]

Originally Posted by gunboat82

The rules are that "you can't outbid yourself," but surely the auction format is meant to leave room for the complete-set bidder to outbid the individual lots as the price increases. No?

That would have made sense but Heritage did not put in place any special rules for this auction. On their site, you can put in a maximum bid but that bid is only used if your current bid is topped on that lot. The set bidding was not connected to the individual lot bidding. Not only that, the set closed before all the lots did. So even if Powell could "bid against himself", the lot was already closed.

The problem is that everyone involved played by the rules but the rules did not anticipate this situation (which, in retrospect, they should have).