Heritage Auctions - Boston Garters

[brunswickreeves]

Originally Posted by Powell

Respectfully, I disagree. The set lot closed and Heritage reported me as the winner both on the lot and in my account. It’s not by “fiat” or “hot shot” lawyering it’s the plain language of the rules and the inherent nature of an auction. Once the gavel drops and the set was sold it’s over. It’s absurd to say that individual lots could be bid to later overtake the set after the bidding on the set was locked out —that’s clearly wrong.

Have you received the confirmation email confirming the win and invoice for the lot? Or do you have a screenshot from the ‘You Won’ confirmation as evidence for HA evaluation and consideration?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by brunswickreeves

Have you received the confirmation email confirming the win and invoice for the lot? Or do you have a screenshot from the ‘You Won’ confirmation as evidence for HA evaluation and consideration?

HA obviously knows what happened here, Powell doesn't need "evidence," good Lord. The issue is not whether they believe him, of course they do, it's what they choose to do.

[Powell]

I wired the full set price to Heritage this morning. I hope that they do the right thing. I appreciate the debate and everyone’s comments even those who disagree with my conclusions. I don’t think anyone disagrees the set lot should have closed if it wasn’t closed. I didn’t take any snap shots but Heritage know it recorded it in my account as a win and sometime Saturday morning changed it.
I had no doubt I won the set after the set lot closed and it was in my account as a win (I was underbidder on the Gherig and might well have gone for that if I wasn’t in a good place on the BG’s.). Bottom line I confirmed my win and went to sleep. I was shocked to learn the next morning from this board that the individual lots “won.”

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Powell

I wired the full set price to Heritage this morning.

You are a brave man. If nothing else, I applaud your chutzpah and determination to force the issue.

[Jewish-collector]

Originally Posted by raulus

chutzpah

Good one
beer chug.gifbeer chug.gifbeer chug.gif

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

You are a brave man. If nothing else, I applaud your chutzpah and determination to force the issue.

"Should I have the strength ... to force the moment to its crisis?"

T.S. Eliot

Sorry, back to the discussion.

[hcv123]

Well,

Like I think is a unanimous opinion around this, Heritage really messed up the mechanics here and poorly communicated the "process" (it was a unique situation for them and should have been much more explicitly communicated) - if the way it went down was what was intended. One thing that I would like to add that "should" have happened here in addition to all the BG lots staying open till none of them had bids for 30 minutes, is that the "current" bid of the set lot should have increased as the aggregate bids on the individual lots did - reflecting either a winning set bid or a losing one that could then be increased.

Based on the specific wording that has been clearly pointed out, I suspect this possibility may have been considered and determined to be too much trouble or expense to make the necessary software changes.

That said, like most - I think the situation SUCKS royally!! While I understand the point you are making Powell as well as why you would have gone to sleep thinking you won, I think the way the wording sits hurts your position.

[Johnny630]

Chose Long Term Happiness over Pleasure.... Make Peace with whatever happens....It's in Gods Hands

If it's meant to be it's meant to be if it's not it's not. Life Goes On Just Make Peace with whatever happens.

Either Way I wish you the best. It's only cards, you're happiness is more important.

[Rhotchkiss]

Here is an interesting hypothetical, and is nothing more than hypothetical considering (1) we don’t know if Powell had in a max bid that exceeded his last bid, and (2) it’s unlikely that Powell would have been able to bid against himself (in the complete set lot), but what happens in this situation:

Powell is high bidder on the set at $615k with a max bid placed of $640k. When the 30 minute timer on the set lot ends, Powell’s $615k bid is higher than the aggregate of the individual lots at $610. However, some of the individual lots remain open and one lot gets two more bids before it closes, pushing the aggregate to $620k. Powell has a $640k max bid placed, but his auction is closed, so his auction will not recognize the $640k max bid, which would have beat the $615k aggregate….

[brunswickreeves]

Originally Posted by Powell

I wired the full set price to Heritage this morning. I hope that they do the right thing. I appreciate the debate and everyone’s comments even those who disagree with my conclusions. I don’t think anyone disagrees the set lot should have closed if it wasn’t closed. I didn’t take any snap shots but Heritage know it recorded it in my account as a win and sometime Saturday morning changed it.
I had no doubt I won the set after the set lot closed and it was in my account as a win (I was underbidder on the Gherig and might well have gone for that if I wasn’t in a good place on the BG’s.). Bottom line I confirmed my win and went to sleep. I was shocked to learn the next morning from this board that the individual lots “won.”

Clearly I’m in the wrong profession

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Powell

I wired the full set price to Heritage this morning. I hope that they do the right thing.

If you were never formally invoiced, how did you know how much money to send them? I know you could figure out the total after the 20% BP, but what about the sales tax/shipping/insurance? Did you just guess at the amount due?

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Powell

I wired the full set price to Heritage this morning. I hope that they do the right thing. I appreciate the debate and everyone’s comments even those who disagree with my conclusions. I don’t think anyone disagrees the set lot should have closed if it wasn’t closed. I didn’t take any snap shots but Heritage know it recorded it in my account as a win and sometime Saturday morning changed it.
I had no doubt I won the set after the set lot closed and it was in my account as a win (I was underbidder on the Gherig and might well have gone for that if I wasn’t in a good place on the BG’s.). Bottom line I confirmed my win and went to sleep. I was shocked to learn the next morning from this board that the individual lots “won.”

Couldn't find an update to this in the thread. Did Heritage accept the payment? Send it back? Or is this still in limbo?

[raulus]

It does seem like the general approach that Heritage chose to take, which kinda sorta seems like what is discussed in very vague terms in their terms is something like this:

Run the auction like we always do, with zero changes to format to accommodate the mechanics here. The next day when all the dust settles and all of the lots are closed, Heritage sits down and adds up all of the individual lots, and compare it to the lot for the set. Whichever total is the biggest, wins, and the other lot or lots are SOL.

Obviously that means that everyone is basically flying blind, and with zero ability to attempt to really compete on a level playing field. All of which can easily lead to the disagreements, angst, and a whole lot of pissed off people who thought they should have won. Cue the last 90% of this thread.

Then ratchet up the angst by a factor of 100x because these are some very desirable and incredibly rare pieces that a lot of people really, really want for their collection.