Heritage Auctions - Boston Garters

[Powell]

But the software didn’t allow the bidding to continue for me, it said I won. I’m open to a reasonable solution as I stated earlier. I don’t want to take this further but won’t be steamrolled either.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Powell

But the software didn’t allow the bidding to continue for me, it said I won. I’m open to a reasonable solution as I stated earlier. I don’t want to take this further but won’t be steamrolled either.

I don't know if that means you are considering the possibility of a lawsuit, but as you know it's going to be very difficult if not impossible to get specific performance once the cards are shipped out around the country.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by Powell

But the software didn’t allow the bidding to continue for me, it said I won. I’m open to a reasonable solution as I stated earlier. I don’t want to take this further but won’t be steamrolled either.

I think the software said you won because it can’t see the linkage between the individual and the aggregate lots. My guess is that even if there was a separate page added to the auction that showed the total of the individual lots as compared to the aggregate lot, the software wouldn’t let an aggregate lot bidder bump his own bids to catch up if he was behind. I had the reverse situation once where I was an individual lot bidder and the sum of the individual lots was just short of the aggregate. I wanted to bid but I was not allowed by the software to top myself. I had to call the auction house, explain the situation, and have them enter “house” bids against me so I could continue to bid and eventually throw the individual total above the aggregate bid.

[oldjudge]

I would think that the cards would not be shipped before tomorrow at earliest so that should not be an issue.
The only fair thing to do is reauction the cards. The question then is whether the bidding will be limited to the initial bidders or completely open. I ask because I could see the possibility of new bidders entering the fray.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I would think that the cards would not be shipped before tomorrow at earliest so that should not be an issue.
The only fair thing to do is reauction the cards. The question then is whether the bidding will be limited to the initial bidders or completely open. I ask because I could see the possibility of new bidders entering the fray.

I would be shocked if Heritage goes that route with a completed auction of this magnitude.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would be shocked if Heritage goes that route with a completed auction of this magnitude.

I don’t see HA changing the current result if they don’t do this.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I don’t see HA changing the current result if they don’t do this.

Yep. I think that's exactly what they will do, keep the result.

[gunboat82]

Every solution is unsatisfying, but the most logical would be to determine that the bid for the complete set is the winner because it exceeded the individual lots when it closed, and the individual bids that came in later are nullities.

Granted, I'm wearing my consumer hat rather than my lawyer hat, but that's the only reasonable way to interpret auction rules that don't provide any sort of disclaimer about staggered individual-lot closings after bidding on the complete set is locked.

[yomass]

Mile High (and Mastro/Legendary back in the day) avoided this issue because all lots closed at once, not individually, and all lots showed which total was winning (set or individuals).

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by yomass

Mile High (and Mastro/Legendary back in the day) avoided this issue because all lots closed at once, not individually, and all lots showed which total was winning (set or individuals).

Does Mile High allow you to increase your own bid, if necessary, to change which outcome is ahead (set vs individual lots) or do you have to contact them so they can adjust the bid?

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by yomass

Mile High (and Mastro/Legendary back in the day) avoided this issue because all lots closed at once, not individually, and all lots showed which total was winning (set or individuals).

Does Mile High allow you to increase your own bid, if necessary, to change which outcome is ahead (set vs individual lots) or do you have to contact them so they can adjust the bid?

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Does Mile High allow you to increase your own bid, if necessary, to change which outcome is ahead (set vs individual lots) or do you have to contact them so they can adjust the bid?

Yes, you could bid against the aggregate total of all cards. Both totals showed on the set price and the individual prices.

It worked perfectly and as far as I know they never had an issue.

Most of the time the single aggregate won so each card sold separately but they also had some set totals that won.

As previously stated, all lots ended at the same time.

[dariushou]

Originally Posted by yomass

Mile High (and Mastro/Legendary back in the day) avoided this issue because all lots closed at once, not individually, and all lots showed which total was winning (set or individuals).

not sure if precedent by another auction house matters, but
rea ran a 1980 topps pepsi set vs individual cards a few years back. i dont remember exactly if it all ended at same time, but indiviudal cards won out. just providng another example of set vs individual cards being run by major auction house. does anyone remember if it all closed at once. again, probably a moot point here since heritage screwed the pooche here

[oldjudge]

This reminds me of the REA computer glitches in overtime when, if I remember correctly, some items showed that they were closed when in fact they weren’t. I still think the cards should be reauctioned and, unlike others, I think that everyone should be able to bid (I’m sure the consignor agrees with me). I would end the auction for all lots at a fixed time to avoid a repeat of this issue. Otherwise, you can use the same software; you just need a total vs parts page.
As for the consignor being happier if the cards stay together I agree, unless of course it costs him any money.

[rand1com]

I'm sure Heritage has a disclaimer that covers any possible scenario and they have full authority to settle it in any manner they see fit.

I think they will leave it as is and sell to the individual bidders.

May not seem fair but it nets the consignor the most money and that is their #1 priority.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rand1com

I'm sure Heritage has a disclaimer that covers any possible scenario and they have full authority to settle it in any manner they see fit.

I think they will leave it as is and sell to the individual bidders.

May not seem fair but it nets the consignor the most money and that is their #1 priority.

It also pisses off only one person, albeit of course one who is important to them.

[oldjudge]

We don’t know who won the individual lots. That said, as I said before, the right answer should be independent of the picket depth of the parties involved.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It also pisses off only one person, albeit of course one who is important to them.

Peter, I disagree. Doing this will presumably piss off both Powell and the consignor, who would have realized more from the sale of his set if Powell had known he needed to increase his bid and been able to do so.

As I see it, FWIW, the only equitable solution is to re-auction these cards with only those who previously bid on them permitted to participate. And, obviously, the total of the bids on the individual cards needs to be made continuously available to all bidders. And, all bidders need to be able to increase their own bids, and all lots need to close at the same time.