PSA Card Guarantee

[Exhibitman]

Whats the context? They could cap liability to a submitter since there is privity of contract, but to just announce they won't be responsible and expect that to stick with a non-contracting party, yeah, good luck with that. If that worked, I'd post a liability cap on everything I send out.

[perezfan]

Well they’ve gotten this far, making their own inane rules and policies, with the collecting masses lapping it up to no end. They’ve deemed proven altered cards to be original and have kept people waiting up to a year to receive their “grades”.

So obviously they think theirs is the word of God, and that they’re legally exempt. No amount of corruption or incompetence seems to detract from collectors’ desires to support them. So why not re-write the rules?

[Snowman]

It really is silly that they ever offered any sort of a guarantee whatsoever, to begin with. You'd think they would just accept the fact that they are unable to detect most alterations by this point and just get rid of their guarantee program. It really is pointless. They should just be upfront and honest about what they can and cannot do and simply admit that their grades just represent a particular grader's opinion on a particular day and that there is a very wide range of expectations when sending in cards for grading.

I'd love to see a hobby "secret shopper" like the apparel and restaurant industries have where a mix of altered and unaltered cards are sent to every grading company and statistical reports get published with their results, showing each company's Type I and Type II errors (TPG said a card was not altered when it was, and TPG said a card was altered when it was not). I'd place my bets on SGC being by far the most accurate.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

It really is silly that they ever offered any sort of a guarantee whatsoever, to begin with. You'd think they would just accept the fact that they are unable to detect most alterations by this point and just get rid of their guarantee program. It really is pointless. They should just be upfront and honest about what they can and cannot do and simply admit that their grades just represent a particular grader's opinion on a particular day and that there is a very wide range of expectations when sending in cards for grading.

I'd love to see a hobby "secret shopper" like the apparel and restaurant industries have where a mix of altered and unaltered cards are sent to every grading company and statistical reports get published with their results, showing each company's Type I and Type II errors (TPG said a card was not altered when it was, and TPG said a card was altered when it was not). I'd place my bets on SGC being by far the most accurate.

Relatedly, I've always wanted to see someone buy up say 100 random PSA 10s from a seller like 4SC and resubmit them and report the results.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Relatedly, I've always wanted to see someone buy up say 100 random PSA 10s from a seller like 4SC and resubmit them and report the results.

The statistician/data scientist in me would love to run experiments like this. But my financial advisor/wife claims it's an unwise investment. Maybe someone will set up a 'GoFundMe' and I can donate to the cause lol

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

The statistician/data scientist in me would love to run experiments like this. But my financial advisor/wife claims it's an unwise investment. Maybe someone will set up a 'GoFundMe' and I can donate to the cause lol

Let's say we could buy 100 random PSA 10s from 4SC fairly spanning their price range, with other people's money. What's your guess as to the distribution of what would come back if we resubmitted them all raw? I would guess something like 20 10s, 50 9s, 10 AUTH, and the rest 8s and 7s. That might be high on the 10s.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Let's say we could buy 100 random PSA 10s from 4SC fairly spanning their price range, with other people's money. What's your guess as to the distribution of what would come back if we resubmitted them all raw? I would guess something like 20 10s, 50 9s, 10 AUTH, and the rest 8s and 7s. That might be high on the 10s.

It would depend quite a bit on the type of cards we selected.

If they were ultra-modern shiny cards, I suspect it might be something like:
60% 10s
30% 9s
7% 8s
1% 7s or lower
2% Authentic/rejected

If 80s junk wax with older certs
10% 10s
30% 9s
20% 8s
10% 7s or lower
30% Authentic/rejected

If vintage with older certs:
<1% 10s
15% 9s
10% 8s or lower
75% Authentic/rejected

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Snowman

It really is silly that they ever offered any sort of a guarantee whatsoever, to begin with. You'd think they would just accept the fact that they are unable to detect most alterations by this point and just get rid of their guarantee program. It really is pointless. They should just be upfront and honest about what they can and cannot do and simply admit that their grades just represent a particular grader's opinion on a particular day and that there is a very wide range of expectations when sending in cards for grading.

I'd love to see a hobby "secret shopper" like the apparel and restaurant industries have where a mix of altered and unaltered cards are sent to every grading company and statistical reports get published with their results, showing each company's Type I and Type II errors (TPG said a card was not altered when it was, and TPG said a card was altered when it was not). I'd place my bets on SGC being by far the most accurate.

I wouldn't be so sure.

And how would you count rejections based on how giving a deserving card a number grade? Of my three rejects,
1 "miscut top and bottom" Very rough cut, factory but not at all typical.
2 "Min size" also factory, and the difference in height was less than the difference in width on another card in the same submission. I suspect the narrow card - a non AB T206 that's very near as narrow as my AB backs got through while the short one didn't because the size they use for width accounts for AB, but the height is more strict.
3 Trimmed all four sides. Totally blew it including that one as I delayed then rushed to pick a card to make the minimum number for that special. It is trimmed.

I get that the first two would probably look "bad" to someone who doesn't know what a factory edge looks like, so they wouldn't give it a number. I got the explanations by requesting not to holder as "A"

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Well they’ve gotten this far, making their own inane rules and policies, with the collecting masses lapping it up to no end. They’ve deemed proven altered cards to be original and have kept people waiting up to a year to receive their “grades”.

So obviously they think theirs is the word of God, and that they’re legally exempt. No amount of corruption or incompetence seems to detract from collectors’ desires to support them. So why not re-write the rules?

You are thinking like an old school card collector, not a new age flip collector.