The trend in Wagner cards

[robertsmithnocure]

I think a few of his cards, like his M116, may have gotten ahead of themselves, but I have always thought that there was upside in his cards. I still do, especially for some of his really rare stuff, like his W600, E107, etc.

[chiprop]

My opinion is that Wagner should not be 10x Cobb in any issue other than t206. Either M116 Cobb is too cheap or Wagner is too expensive. Maybe both statements are true.

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[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by chiprop

My opinion is that Wagner should not be 10x Cobb in any issue other than t206. Either M116 Cobb is too cheap or Wagner is too expensive. Maybe both statements are true.]

I generally agree with you. However, Cobb is much more available than Wagner. Wagner has almost no T cards - the few t206s and even fewer t216s. He also doesn’t have as many post cards as Cobb, and the majority of his playing career was before cards were mass produced. It’s virtually impossible to get anything Wagner pre 1909, which makes cards from 1909-11, when he was still playing at superstar level, all the more desirable.

Cobb is a better player and bigger star than Wagner. No doubt. But Wagner is tougher to find and it’s his face on the most famous card of all time.

I honestly think Wagner cards stay high, and, given that Kyle Herbert and Luka Doncic cards sell for as much in Goldin’s auction, may have room yet to run (admittedly, I am a bit biased toward Wagner items!). But $27k for an M116 PSA 1, even a blue, is mind boggling.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I generally agree with you. However, Cobb is much more available than Wagner. Wagner has almost no T cards - the few t206s and even fewer t216s. He also doesn’t have as many post cards as Cobb, and the majority of his playing career was before cards were mass produced. It’s virtually impossible to get anything Wagner pre 1909, which makes cards from 1909-11, when he was still playing at superstar level, all the more desirable.

Cobb is a better player and bigger star than Wagner. No doubt. But Wagner is tougher to find and it’s his face on the most famous card of all time.

I honestly think Wagner cards stay high, and, given that Kyle Herbert and Luka Doncic cards sell for as much in Goldin’s auction, may have room yet to run (admittedly, I am a bit biased toward Wagner items!). But $27k for an M116 PSA 1, even a blue, is mind boggling.

That was no ordinary 1. Would that "extra" paper on the back soak off?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That was no ordinary 1. Would that "extra" paper on the back soak off?

There is a wrinkle in there too. If you believe one person's BS about wrinkles just coming out of cards from exposure to moisture, then then some lucky collector can pick up this one in a 4 or a 5 in a few weeks. Stay tuned.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

There is a wrinkle in there too. If you believe one person's BS about wrinkles just coming out of cards from exposure to moisture, then then some lucky collector can pick up this one in a 4 or a 5 in a few weeks. Stay tuned.

Oh I was just assuming that would come out which left only the "extra" back paper in the way of a nice midgrade example. Wouldn't you love to see the bidders on this one?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Oh I was just assuming that would come out which left only the "extra" back paper in the way of a nice midgrade example. Wouldn't you love to see the bidders on this one?

After a certain point the bidders on that one were not bidding on it as an amazing 1. After the makeover it could end up being consigned right back to the house. Remember to recycle, kids.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I generally agree with you. However, Cobb is much more available than Wagner. Wagner has almost no T cards - the few t206s and even fewer t216s. He also doesn’t have as many post cards as Cobb, and the majority of his playing career was before cards were mass produced. It’s virtually impossible to get anything Wagner pre 1909, which makes cards from 1909-11, when he was still playing at superstar level, all the more desirable.

Cobb is a better player and bigger star than Wagner. No doubt. But Wagner is tougher to find and it’s his face on the most famous card of all time.

I honestly think Wagner cards stay high, and, given that Kyle Herbert and Luka Doncic cards sell for as much in Goldin’s auction, may have room yet to run (admittedly, I am a bit biased toward Wagner items!). But $27k for an M116 PSA 1, even a blue, is mind boggling.

I agree that the tremendous, new demand for Wagner cards is hard to explain. It's strange to think that more than a handful of people would think that any Wagner card is a shrewd $20K investment. But I disagree when you say that there is no doubt anywhere that Cobb was the greater player.

[brunswickreeves]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I generally agree with you. However, Cobb is much more available than Wagner. Wagner has almost no T cards - the few t206s and even fewer t216s. He also doesn’t have as many post cards as Cobb, and the majority of his playing career was before cards were mass produced. It’s virtually impossible to get anything Wagner pre 1909, which makes cards from 1909-11, when he was still playing at superstar level, all the more desirable.

Cobb is a better player and bigger star than Wagner. No doubt. But Wagner is tougher to find and it’s his face on the most famous card of all time.

I honestly think Wagner cards stay high, and, given that Kyle Herbert and Luka Doncic cards sell for as much in Goldin’s auction, may have room yet to run (admittedly, I am a bit biased toward Wagner items!). But $27k for an M116 PSA 1, even a blue, is mind boggling.

To put data around this observation, there appears to be 5,006+/- graded (PSA, SGC, Beckett) Cobb portraits (green, red, pastel, blue, other). Whereas there are only 796+/- graded Wagner portraits (right and left facing, color and non-color). Please refer to POP reports for up to date and validation of totals. =6x fewer total Wagner portraits.

[Republicaninmass]

I'm a completionist so to say I would start a t206 set would mean I would never be finished. I understand the big 4, but just not my cup of tea. I'd really have my head examined to add another type card and say "I'm done" just buy a reprint.

See the Board bST for people.hoping to cash in on this mystery! Got to be a top here soon, with a deep bottom, but a median higher than it was eventually

[Peter_Spaeth]

M116 Blue SGC 5.5 in REA up over 50K already.

[toothcutter]

Who ever grabs the 5.5 wags under 85k is stealing that card

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by chiprop

My opinion is that Wagner should not be 10x Cobb in any issue other than t206. Either M116 Cobb is too cheap or Wagner is too expensive. Maybe both statements are true.

Attachment 590734

Dan - Spot on accurate. For example, why is a PSA 2 E93 Wagner fetching $10K+ when a Cobb in the same grade is worth roughly $5-$6K at best. Totally off base and something has to give. Since I don’t see Wagner cards significantly dropping in value, the next staggering pricing increase will be for Ty Cobb “E” & “D” cards (M116s as well)....it’s coming!

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by chiprop

My opinion is that Wagner should not be 10x Cobb in any issue other than t206. Either M116 Cobb is too cheap or Wagner is too expensive. Maybe both statements are true.

I fall more in line with Ryan on this issue. There is no simple formula given the disparity in numbers of cards each man has and certain idiosyncratic facts about some issues. As has been remarked earlier, a lot of collectors who have T206 Cobb portraits use the M116 Wagner as a replacement for the T206 Wagner they will never own. That makes a Horner Wagner image card often more desirable than a Cobb card from the same set.