Cards still being outed on Blowout -- PSA 9 Monte Irvin in the recent ML

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Pulling this out probably amounts to a non-sequitur at this point, but it caught my attention because I don't think I've ever seen KCC discussed on N54 before.

I would agree with you that what he does (at least on vintage) stops short of true card doctoring. If soaking a T206 is not a sin, then neither is using moisture / humidity to lift dents out of cards or to perk up pressed-down corners from screw cases. In the right set of circumstances in a musty attic or basement, the same thing could happen naturally. I know that his "spray" has drawn criticism too, but whatever it's ingredients - it's a quick drying formula that leaves nothing on the surface. I ordered a small bottle just to play with it, and had moderate success lessening the appearance of (not totally removing) light wrinkles and creases on postwar vintage on some test cards in my own PC. As I'm not setting out to do this for a living or even make it part of my hobby, (and his recommended practices if you do it on a lot of cards can be quite time consuming) I kind of quit after that.

Kurt does also have a "polish" for shiny ultramodern cards that seems to get out light scratches and imperfections. His videos are interesting to watch to say the least - and even though the polish to me seems to be a bit more in the vein of doctoring, I don't think he's ever had anything rejected by PSA or SGC. He's done everything from modern 1/1's to '52 Mantles it seems with good results.

This is interesting to me just because of the upfront, no secrets nature of it and the way Kurt runs his YouTube channel. Given recent events and indeed the original subject of this thread - it doesn't seem like he will run out of business anytime soon.

For those of us who grew up when cards were not worth much, or we didn't think so anyhow, I doubt any of us would have imagined doing any of this stuff to a card. I am not sure what that says, but it says something.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

For those of us who grew up when cards were not worth much, or we didn't think so anyhow, I doubt any of us would have imagined doing any of this stuff to a card. I am not sure what that says, but it says something.

I think it's more of a personality thing. If you have OCD like me, then you'd want your cards to be as clean as possible because you enjoy looking at them, regardless of value. I've cleaned countless $1 cards for my own personal enjoyment that I have no intention of ever grading or selling. I don't want a thousand other people's random funk on my cards.

I also have dirty cards in slabs that I really really really want to clean, but to do so would come at a great cost because they'd just end up with the same grade again after cleaning and resubmitting, and the grading fees on them would be in excess of $1k each

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I think it's more of a personality thing. If you have OCD like me, then you'd want your cards to be as clean as possible because you enjoy looking at them, regardless of value. I've cleaned countless $1 cards for my own personal enjoyment that I have no intention of ever grading or selling. I don't want a thousand other people's random funk on my cards.

I also have dirty cards in slabs that I really really really want to clean, but to do so would come at a great cost because they'd just end up with the same grade again after cleaning and resubmitting, and the grading fees on them would be in excess of $1k each

That may be the exception I would think; most of what is done to cards today seems in preparation for grading, regardless of whether or not it's deemed doctoring.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I think it's more of a personality thing. If you have OCD like me, then you'd want your cards to be as clean as possible because you enjoy looking at them, regardless of value. I've cleaned countless $1 cards for my own personal enjoyment that I have no intention of ever grading or selling. I don't want a thousand other people's random funk on my cards.

I also have dirty cards in slabs that I really really really want to clean, but to do so would come at a great cost because they'd just end up with the same grade again after cleaning and resubmitting, and the grading fees on them would be in excess of $1k each

That's fascinating. OCD can manifest itself in many ways, it seems....

I have OCD (which runs in our family) but mine affects my collecting quite differently. If a card has any hint of doctoring or alteration, my OCD will immediately dismiss the possibility of owning it. Unless the card (or any collectible for that matter) is all-original, my eyes will always be drawn to the newly added color, trimming or bleaching.

Any aspect that is not original to the card itself will automatically deem the card useless to me. Weird... huh!

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by perezfan

That's fascinating. OCD can manifest itself in many ways, it seems....

I have OCD (which runs in our family) but mine affects my collecting quite differently. If a card has any hint of doctoring or alteration, my OCD will immediately dismiss the possibility of owning it. Unless the card (or any collectible for that matter) is all-original, my eyes will always be drawn to the newly added color, trimming or bleaching.

Any aspect that is not original to the card itself will automatically deem the card useless to me. Weird... huh!

Not weird to me at all in fact THAT sounds 100% normal. You must have a different kind of OCD: Original Card Desires. I have it too and not seeking treatment.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Both are in DSM V or whatever we are up to.

OCD-1 OK with Card Doctoring
OCD-2 Opposed to Card Doctoring

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Both are in DSM V or whatever we are up to.

OCD-1 OK with Card Doctoring
OCD-2 Opposed to Card Doctoring

LOL. Priceless.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Both are in DSM V or whatever we are up to.

OCD-1 OK with Card Doctoring
OCD-2 Opposed to Card Doctoring

DSM IV > DSM V

And I have "OCD-3 That's not card doctoring" syndrome

[Snowman]

Also, perhaps worth pointing out is that there is a significant difference between someone being a perfectionist and someone being clinically diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder. The two are often conflated in casual conversations or nomenclature. To have true OCD, you generally will experience actual physical distress or anxiety if you don't perform some sort of ritual. Which can often be something silly, such as Nomar Garciaparra's routine when he gets up to the plate. Surely, he had OCD as well. When I was younger, I used to have to get up from bed and flip my light switch on/off 3 times every night, or I wouldn't be able to sleep.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Snowman

DSM IV > DSM V

We all miss the Axis II disorders.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by perezfan

That's fascinating. OCD can manifest itself in many ways, it seems....

I have OCD (which runs in our family) but mine affects my collecting quite differently. If a card has any hint of doctoring or alteration, my OCD will immediately dismiss the possibility of owning it. Unless the card (or any collectible for that matter) is all-original, my eyes will always be drawn to the newly added color, trimming or bleaching.

Any aspect that is not original to the card itself will automatically deem the card useless to me. Weird... huh!

Oh, I definitely don't want trimmed, recolored, or bleached cards either. My goal is to bring them back at close as possible to their original condition.