Cards still being outed on Blowout -- PSA 9 Monte Irvin in the recent ML

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I personally believe that if this card were to be resold with disclosure...it would lose significant value. And the opinion/mindset that it doesn't matter...is quite detrimental to the hobby.

To each their own, right! If I were a newbee attempting to enter this hobby...with full disclosure of all the corruption/skechiness abound...I'd pick another hobby!

Pete. I agree with what you say.
But instead of telling them to pick another hobby, I would try to steer them in a different direction.

This card is 113 yrs old. None of us will look this good at 113. Nuff Ced! (from the BST yrs ago)
.

[DocScoot]

Thankfully my budget has me hunting low grade gems, generally can't afford anything vintage above a 1-2. I do find this thread fascinating. Some of those doctoring jobs I have to admit are pretty astonishing to me, seems to me there's some real skill involved there. It's the dishonesty that's the problem here, but for a psa bump from 5 to 9 meaning a $29,950 profit, it's no surprise this is happening.

All that said, it's interesting to me that the grading companies haven't starting offering something like "restored" as a qualifier to take some of the stigma off of "altered". I can see someone not from this world looking at this process as more like art restoration which is a rather common and accepted thing for really old and valuable artwork.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by DocScoot

Thankfully my budget has me hunting low grade gems, generally can't afford anything vintage above a 1-2. I do find this thread fascinating. Some of those doctoring jobs I have to admit are pretty astonishing to me, seems to me there's some real skill involved there. It's the dishonesty that's the problem here, but for a psa bump from 5 to 9 meaning a $29,950 profit, it's no surprise this is happening.

All that said, it's interesting to me that the grading companies haven't starting offering something like "restored" as a qualifier to take some of the stigma off of "altered". I can see someone not from this world looking at this process as more like art restoration which is a rather common and accepted thing for really old and valuable artwork.

It's acceptable for art because each work is unique and over time the appearance can deteriorate meaning less enjoyment for people viewing it. No such rationale for 99 percent of the garbage being done to cards which is solely for deception and profit. Please don't elevate these scum to the level of art restorers.

[DocScoot]

I agree if it's done for dishonest means it's completely unacceptable, and what I'm seeing highlighted in this thread is truly flat out fraud that should be illegal. I'm not trying to elevate fraud. But to say only unique items are acceptable for restoration seems pretty close minded. What about old cars? Or old watches? I have no problem imaging that there could be a legitimate market for restored old baseball cards, and there seems to me to be some real skill involved. The trick is the buyer has to know what they're buying. Sadly that's not what's happening in the card market.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's acceptable for art because each work is unique and over time the appearance can deteriorate meaning less enjoyment for people viewing it. No such rationale for 99 percent of the garbage being done to cards which is solely for deception and profit. Please don't elevate these scum to the level of art restorers.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by DocScoot

I agree if it's done for dishonest means it's completely unacceptable, and what I'm seeing highlighted in this thread is truly flat out fraud that should be illegal. I'm not trying to elevate fraud. But to say only unique items are acceptable for restoration seems pretty close minded. What about old cars? Or old watches? I have no problem imaging that there could be a legitimate market for restored old baseball cards, and there seems to me to be some real skill involved. The trick is the buyer has to know what they're buying. Sadly that's not what's happening in the card market, and it seems like the grading companies are largely complicit if not mostly to blame.

Sure, if it's fully disclosed and there is a way to ensure subsequent buyers can't be deceived.

[DocScoot]

Comment removed.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Leon

Pete. I agree with what you say.
But instead of telling them to pick another hobby, I would try to steer them in a different direction.

This card is 113 yrs old. None of us will look this good at 113. Nuff Ced! (from the BST yrs ago)
.

good point, Leon...I'd steer them away from collecting high grade slabs.