Top 3 — Most Important

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

I would argue with it, as King Kelly was the game's first superstar, not Cobb

Baseball was a much more popular game when Cobb came along, as a result, I believe his influence was much greater on the general public. Just look at the popularity of baseball cards in 1909-1910 compared to earlier years or the rise of the Sporting Life and other publications that really took off after Kelly was big. Cobb was in every newspaper, he had a nickname, he was in plays, people loved and hated him and showed up in huge numbers when he played to see him or boo him. He held out and negotiated his contract, something nobody ever did before and he made being a "ball player" a more respectable career, whereas before ball players were bums who couldn't get real jobs. And, his face was all over trading tobacco, confectionary, and candy cards.

Maybe Kelley or Anson, or Lajoie or Wagner for that matter, were superstars on the field/to the people who played. To the general public, Cobb was the first superstar baseball player - which to me means he transcended the sport and thus did more for it than anyone prior.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Baseball was a much more popular game when Cobb came along, as a result, I believe his influence was much greater on the general public. Just look at the popularity of baseball cards in 1909-1910 compared to earlier years or the rise of the Sporting Life and other publications that really took off after Kelly was big.

Totally fair.

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Cobb was in every newspaper, he had a nickname, he was in plays, people loved and hated him and showed up in huge numbers when he played to see him or boo him.

While Kelly may not have been in as many newspapers, I believe all the rest of this applied to Kelly in his day.

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Maybe Kelley or Anson, or Lajoie or Wagner for that matter, were superstars on the field/to the people who played. To the general public, Cobb was the first superstar baseball player - which to me means he transcended the sport and thus did more for it than anyone prior.

To me, Jim Creighton was the first star player and Kelly the first superstar. That said, I don't fault anyone for putting Cobb on their "3 most important" list. I do believe that there should be a 19th century player on the list though. For me that would be Anson for (both good and bad) reasons others have stated.

[packs]

I would think Cobb's place is earned because there was no one like him until he arrived. Every 19th century player paled in comparison to Ty Cobb. No one had ever considered someone could be as good as Cobb was until you saw Cobb.

He was simply the best player who ever lived until Ruth hits his prime and there have been very few players of his caliber since.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by packs

I would think Cobb's place is earned because there was no one like him until he arrived. Every 19th century player paled in comparison to Ty Cobb. No one had ever considered someone could be as good as Cobb was until you saw Cobb.

He was simply the best player who ever lived until Ruth hits his prime and there have been very few players of his caliber since.

I agree that Cobb is a top 2 player of all time. I guess that's the thing though - "most important" vs. "first superstar" vs. "greatest" are all different questions, to me at least.

[packs]

I would say that Cobb played an important role between moving away from the old game and moving toward the new game that arrived with Ruth.

Cobb is still 4th all time in WAR and 2nd in hits. If Ruth never existed Ty Cobb takes his place. That puts him in the Top 3 in my mind.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

There have been so many incredible players that in order to select my picks, they had to do more than just be incredible on the field. As in something gargantuan. Ruthian. Hell, he's his own adjective! Ruth changed the way the game was played from his time onward. He brought fame and more fans to the game on a global spectrum than absolutely nobody before or since has remotely come close to rivalling, and I don't see it happening again.

Naturally, Jackie and Branch Rickey make the cut for me because of their place in history. There wasn't anything more important for North American society vis a vis baseball than the Rickey/Robinson Experiment. The poster who said that they could share a spot might be on to something, but these are not hard and fast rules! I gave them each a spot. No big deal.

For baseball diehards, some of your other choices are understandable to people in our circles, but they would be mean nothing to an outsider. Lowering the mound by a few inches? Laughable and meaningless to practically anyone you'd ask who wasn't a baseball nut. Even challenging the reserve clause really wouldn't phase an average non-fan. If they know the name Cobb, chances are it's more because of his supposed racism. Ask them about Babe, or about Jackie, and they'll undoubtedly be able to give you some info as to why they were meaningful. Jim Creighton? Pfft. I guarantee you there are many people on this very board who don't even know who he is.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

There have been so many incredible players that in order to select my picks, they had to do more than just be incredible on the field. As in something gargantuan. Ruthian. Hell, he's his own adjective! Ruth changed the way the game was played from his time onward. He brought fame and more fans to the game on a global spectrum than absolutely nobody before or since has remotely come close to rivalling, and I don't see it happening again.

Naturally, Jackie and Branch Rickey make the cut for me because of their place in history. There wasn't anything more important for North American society vis a vis baseball than the Rickey/Robinson Experiment. The poster who said that they could share a spot might be on to something, but these are not hard and fast rules! I gave them each a spot. No big deal.

For baseball diehards, some of your other choices are understandable to people in our circles, but they would be mean nothing to an outsider. Lowering the mound by a few inches? Laughable and meaningless to practically anyone you'd ask who wasn't a baseball nut. Even challenging the reserve clause really wouldn't phase an average non-fan. If they know the name Cobb, chances are it's more because of his supposed racism. Ask them about Babe, or about Jackie, and they'll undoubtedly be able to give you some info as to why they were meaningful. Jim Creighton? Pfft. I guarantee you there are many people on this very board who don't even know who he is.

Okay, but the question was who was the most important in our opinion, not in the opinion of a casual fan/the public.