why do sellers change asking price to sold after a sale?

[G1911]

Scroll through the BST listings. Most of it is the relative ‘junk’, which is what I collect and love. It’s not unique items, it’s not incredibly rare cards, it’s not things difficult to price. It’s people unloading their extras and some commodity HOFers. Nobody is going to Net54 and searching through old BST posts to figure out what an N162 Cap Anson is worth; there are obvious and much better alternatives that are organized and have actual sample sizes. A small unorganized forum BST is not a real pricing tool. Whether a T206 sold for $75 or $85 does not tell you anything about the market value, it’s not changed by a random sale here.


I do not care if an auction house shares its sale records with VCP. I do not think anyone is obligated to give me or others any of their data and information on anything.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Scroll through the BST listings. Most of it is the relative ‘junk’, which is what I collect and love. It’s not unique items, it’s not incredibly rare cards, it’s not things difficult to price. It’s people unloading their extras and some commodity HOFers. Nobody is going to Net54 and searching through old BST posts to figure out what an N162 Cap Anson is worth; there are obvious and much better alternatives that are organized and have actual sample sizes. A small unorganized forum BST is not a real pricing tool. Whether a T206 sold for $75 or $85 does not tell you anything about the market value, it’s not changed by a random sale here.


I do not care if an auction house shares its sale records with VCP. I do not think anyone is obligated to give me or others any of their data and information on anything.

I see graded a Ruth, Wagner, Mathewson and Young in the first category I opened on the first page without even scrolling down.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I see graded a Ruth, Wagner, Mathewson and Young in the first category I opened on the first page without even scrolling down.

Which of these cards are difficult to price?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

Which of these cards are difficult to price?

There probably isn't a hell of a lot of data in a particular grade for a lot of prewar cards like these where sales are few and far between. These are not for the most part commodity cards. And who says that's the issue, you've decided it was the issue but it isn't. The issue is why deprive people of information to accommodate a buyer looking to suppress data in order to try to overprice.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There probably isn't a hell of a lot of data in a particular grade for a lot of prewar cards like these where sales are few and far between. These are not for the most part commodity cards. And who says that's the issue, you've decided it was the issue but it isn't.

Okay. Do you want to argue that most cards on the BST are difficult to price or big cards?

Yes, that’s the issue? There’s not been any answer. If people are upset that prices are sometimes removed after a sale, the question of how that information is actually useful seems obviously relevant. If it’s a problem, it should be extremely easy to answer how, no? There’s a handful cards certainly that I can see the use, but the vast majority of cards here have actual pricing information in actual organized databases. When looking to value an N162 Anson, do you search through the BST, or do you use an easily available database that is actually organized and designed to fulfill this purpose?

[Peter_Spaeth]

I just checked the PSA website for Anson in a 3, just as an example. There was a sale in 2010 and one in 2017. That's it. So I might well look here as well just in case there was something more recent.

A fair number of cards with not much pricing data are offered on the B/S/T/ Not suggesting it's a majority or even close.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I just checked the PSA website for Anson in a 3, just as an example. There was a sale in 2010 and one in 2017. That's it. So I might well look here as well just in case there was something more recent.

Which BST post have you tried to go back to to value a card you could not find relevant prices for in one of the databases designed for such purpose, and then been stymied because the seller didn’t have a price, which may or may not be what it actually sold or traded for? Did you message that member to ask afterwards?

[RCMcKenzie]

On an Anson, it's more instructive to see a non-sale sitting around at say $10k.

Even if you see that one sold on here last week for 3K, that does not mean the next one trades for 3K. It means you missed your chance to buy one. 1956 Topps Mantles trade like a commodity. The Anson trades like used euro furniture in a yard sale.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by G1911

Scroll through the BST listings. Most of it is the relative ‘junk’, which is what I collect and love. It’s not unique items, it’s not incredibly rare cards, it’s not things difficult to price. It’s people unloading their extras and some commodity HOFers. Nobody is going to Net54 and searching through old BST posts to figure out what an N162 Cap Anson is worth; there are obvious and much better alternatives that are organized and have actual sample sizes. A small unorganized forum BST is not a real pricing tool. Whether a T206 sold for $75 or $85 does not tell you anything about the market value, it’s not changed by a random sale here.


I do not care if an auction house shares its sale records with VCP. I do not think anyone is obligated to give me or others any of their data and information on anything.

And this is where we differ, clearly. I think the market suffers if sales data is not provided and feel the availability of the data has allowed the industry to mature. Not sure how you have as efficient a market absent sales data or some type of actual price point.

Again...I see quite a lot of what I would call significant cards offered for sale on BST so reducing this to a $75 T206 common is really not relevant.

So should real estate transactions not be disclosed? What about stock trades? Different markets but I think providing information on a sale in a commerce related industry makes everyone a more informed participant.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

And this is where we differ, clearly. I think the market suffers if sales data is not provided and feel the availability of the data has allowed the industry to mature. Not sure how you have as efficient a market absent sales data or some type of actual price point.

Again...I see quite a lot of what I would call significant cards offered for sale on BST so reducing this to a $75 T206 common is really not relevant.

So should real estate transactions not be disclosed? What about stock trades? Different markets but I think providing information on a sale in a commerce related industry makes everyone a more informed participant.

I’m a dude who collects cardboard pictures for fun, I don’t care about the efficiency of a profit market whatsoever.

I am sure we are all wells ware there’s a lot more $75 items sold than $1000 ones or whatever line you would like to draw. The majority of the more expensive cards are commodity cards that are easily priced.

I’m losing the logic here. You believe any sale price of any item in any industry must be disclosed publicly and documented for the public? One can think whatever they want but I sure don’t have time to do that. Do I need to make a publicly available database for my lunch receipts? Do you need to know what I paid for my furniture at a garage sale?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by G1911

I’m a dude who collects cardboard pictures for fun, I don’t care about the efficiency of a profit market whatsoever.

I am sure we are all wells ware there’s a lot more $75 items sold than $1000 ones or whatever line you would like to draw. The majority of the more expensive cards are commodity cards that are easily priced.

I’m losing the logic here. You believe any sale price of any item in any industry must be disclosed publicly and documented for the public? One can think whatever they want but I sure don’t have time to do that. Do I need to make a publicly available database for my lunch receipts? Do you need to know what I paid for my furniture at a garage sale?

You are a moving target, as usual.

I never even suggested the pricing data on BST was necessary because it is not available anywhere else. My point, which you apparently disagree with completely is that sales data of some sort should be made available because without it, buyers and sellers would be lost and the more the merrier. If it were not wanted and warranted it would not be seen in almost every venue in this industry.

And to your increasingly ridiculous points, let's take the lunch receipts example. How would it work out for you if the places you walked into for lunch pulled down their prices after each person bought an item and you had to ask an employee how much is the BLT? So yes I actually would love to see a database of those lunch receipts in that scenario.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

You are a moving target, as usual.

I never even suggested the pricing data on BST was necessary because it is not available anywhere else. My point, which you apparently disagree with completely is that sales data of some sort should be made available because without it, buyers and sellers would be lost and the more the merrier. If it were not wanted and warranted it would not be seen in almost every venue in this industry.

And to your increasingly ridiculous points, let's take the lunch receipts example. How would it work out for you if the places you walked into for lunch pulled down their prices after each person bought an item and you had to ask an employee how much is the BLT? So yes I actually would love to see a database of those lunch receipts in that scenario.

I have no interest in trading insults with you still.

If the pricing data is readily available in the databases with infinitely larger sample sizes than this unorganized BST forum, what is the point in using this unorganized BST for pricing instead? That just doesn’t make any sense to me. It would seem to be a logical prerequisite that the data isn’t available in better organized formats for it to be any useful here. I am not against pricing data, I don’t think anyone is required to give me or an organization their data and I don’t really care. I don’t and never have used VCP. I manage to price most cards fairly easily by following and participating in the hobby in real time for the sets I am collecting, but maybe that’s a struggle for other areas of the hobby. Must be kind of a mess searching key terms in the forum to pull BST threads and check them to price instead of using the easy methods.


I don’t understand how furniture and lunch are ridiculous but transactions in “a commerce related industry”, should or need to be disclosed publicly. Is that not commercial industry? If you are limiting to cards, stocks and real estate why are we using “in a commerce related industry”? Do I need to confess every private card transaction I’ve had to not be “ridiculous” or a “super douche”? Do I need to share this list of private deals on Net54, or other places too? I guess I just don’t care about other peoples private business as much as others do.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by G1911

I have no interest in trading insults with you still.

Huh? Comments such as these only take away from the core points you are trying to make. So by not agreeing with you I am now insulting you? That is very interesting.

Originally Posted by G1911

If the pricing data is readily available in the databases with infinitely larger sample sizes than this unorganized BST forum, what is the point in using this unorganized BST for pricing instead? That just doesnÂ’t make any sense to me. It would seem to be a logical prerequisite that the data isnÂ’t available in better organized formats for it to be any useful here. I am not against pricing data, I donÂ’t think anyone is required to give me or an organization their data and I donÂ’t really care. I donÂ’t and never have used VCP. I manage to price most cards fairly easily by following and participating in the hobby in real time for the sets I am collecting, but maybe thatÂ’s a struggle for other areas of the hobby. Must be kind of a mess searching key terms in the forum to pull BST threads and check them to price instead of using the easy methods.

You keep putting words in my mouth with each post. I never implied anyone is mandated to share info. I simply support the sharing of the data and feel it is critical information in any field of collectibles. I merely stated that if the asking price is there for all to see then just leave it not that the person who offered the item is required to leave it. It hurts nobody to leave it since it was volunteered initially. Why remove it?

I can assure you that you would be in the minority of people who do not need a site like VCP or accessing historical pricing data.

And I use many sites when I search values of certain things and yes I have done google searches and been lead to BST posts on many occasions. My collecting habits are always changing and I get interested in issues that years earlier I had no interest in. Again...the more pricing data I have access to the more it helps me.

Originally Posted by G1911

I don’t understand how furniture and lunch are ridiculous but transactions in “a commerce related industry”, should or need to be disclosed publicly. Is that not commercial industry? If you are limiting to cards, stocks and real estate why are we using “in a commerce related industry”? Do I need to confess every private card transaction I’ve had to not be “ridiculous” or a “super douche”? Do I need to share this list of private deals on Net54, or other places too? I guess I just don’t care about other peoples private business as much as others do.

Last I checked the price of sandwiches or furniture did not vary over time like a card's price. Stocks and real estate are quite similar to cards. These are all industries that rely on comp sales. Please tell me the last time you wanted or needed to price a sandwich or piece of furniture based on a comp.

Deals posted on the BST are not private. I used " rather extreme verbiage" to describe a behavior or choice. As far as if you are "ridiculous" or "a super douche" I will let you decide that.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Huh? Comments such as these only take away from the core points you are trying to make. So by not agreeing with you I am now insulting you? That is very interesting.

No. Here:

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

You are a moving target, as usual.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

As far as if you are "ridiculous" or "a super douche" I will let you decide that.

I am just not going to participate in this insult game. You are welcome to dump on me as much as you would like. I am sure you can get much support. I just don't get the emotional and personal anger expressed repeatedly over this issue. This is the tiniest of topics.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

You keep putting words in my mouth with each post. I never implied anyone is mandated to share info.

You called everyone who doesn't a 'super douche'. Nobody said you advocated a law mandating it. That you think people should and need to do it is very clear in the transcript.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I simply support the sharing of the data and feel it is critical information in any field of collectibles. I merely stated that if the asking price is there for all to see then just leave it not that the person who offered the item is required to leave it. It hurts nobody to leave it since it was volunteered initially. Why remove it?

My personal reasons were given early before the train wreck. Though I never put much thought into it, it didn't seem like a big deal.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I can assure you that you would be in the minority of people who do not need a site like VCP or accessing historical pricing data.

I doubt 51%+ of hobbyists have a subscription to them or a competitor. I know the sets I am collecting, I don't think that's special or notable at all. If it works for others that is awesome. I have nothing against it at all.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

And I use many sites when I search values of certain things and yes I have done google searches and been lead to BST posts on many occasions. My collecting habits are always changing and I get interested in issues that years earlier I had no interest in. Again...the more pricing data I have access to the more it helps me.

No argument here. I share information and research publicly and frequently, I have nothing against people sharing information. I don't need to know the details of peoples deals and don't think they owe me anything whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Last I checked the price of sandwiches or furniture did not vary over time like a card's price.

Boy do I wish that was true! After just redoing a new home, ouch they've changed a lot. 'Commerce related industry'.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Stocks and real estate are quite similar to cards. These are all industries that rely on comp sales. Please tell me the last time you wanted or needed to price a sandwich or piece of furniture based on a comp.

Again, I collect cardboard pictures for fun for some reason; I am not an investor. Cards are a fun hobby.

I don't eat sandwiches, but if I go for a bite to eat and see the sellers pricing is out of wack with the market, I go elsewhere. I am aware of what most things relevant to my life generally cost and the appropriate range just by living in the world. I suspect most people do. Same as cards I collect. Same with furniture. Same with everything I buy, really. Perhaps I am an extra cheapskate. I don't have so much money that it makes any sense to not care about the price and not price shop.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Deals posted on the BST are not private.

The final deal usually is private. If it wasn't this wouldn't be a topic to even discuss and you'd have the records. The final price and buyer (or if it even sold) is usually or sometimes (for if it sold) a mystery unless someone chooses to make it public.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I used " rather extreme verbiage" to describe a behavior or choice.

Yes.