Heritage Auctions - Boston Garters

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Surely it is for exactly those cards that look to be in great condition in a photo but aren't in reality that third-party grading is most useful, no?

I have no problem with TPGs, Glenn, I just think the system is too loose at the bottom and too tight at the top. But that's just me, so I'm bowing out here.

[Joshwesley]

You’ve got to be kidding me 😮 😍😍😍😍

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

I have no problem with TPGs, Glenn, I just think the system is too loose at the bottom and too tight at the top. But that's just me, so I'm bowing out here.

It seems most everyone has strong feelings about the graders, and I don’t think anyone faults you for feeling like there’s some real room for improvement.

At the same time, pleasing even most of us is probably an impossible task.

But maybe here’s one way to go:

1) Sub grades for each of the four corners.
2) The surface is now divided into four quadrants, with subgrades for each, plus let’s double down with those grades for each zone on each side, front and back.
3) Edges are now broken down into 8 zones, 2 per side, with subgrades for each zone.
4) Centering for both front and back is disclosed, down to 0.01% precision. And for top/bottom and left/right. Tilting is also measured, again to 0.01% precision.
5) Print defects, snow, fisheyes, etc. are all identified, counted and disclosed, with a listing for each instance identified.
6) Any and all alterations, trims, recoloration, etc. is identified and disclosed with perfect fidelity on an enumerated list, including detail regarding the location of said adjustments.

Bonus: the grading scale will now institute gradations down to 0.01 points for each element. And each of the subgrades will be weighted, with the final grade being a product of each of the weighted valued for the subgrades.

Graders will also be required to write a narrative of one page single space typed to justify each of the subgrades, including factors considered and weighed when making their evaluation. Plus a mandatory essay to extol the virtues of the card, including the degree to which it makes their hearts soar upon beholding it. If not on the flip, then at least available by scanning a QR code on the flip.

Turnaround times will be 2 days or less, including shipping times.

Fees will be $10 or less for each card. Large discounts for bulk orders and vintage cards. The older the card, the bigger the discount.

Shipping is free.

Forgot to mention: Slabs will be indestructible. So no more cracking and resubmitting. Or cracking at all. Once inside a slab with all of these details, it stays there forever.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by raulus

It seems most everyone has strong feelings about the graders, and I don’t think anyone faults you for feeling like there’s some real room for improvement.

At the same time, pleasing even most of us is probably an impossible task.

But maybe here’s one way to go:

1) Sub grades for each of the four corners.
2) The surface is now divided into four quadrants, with subgrades for each, plus let’s double down with those grades for each zone on each side, front and back.
3) Edges are now broken down into 8 zones, 2 per side, with subgrades for each zone.
4) Centering for both front and back is disclosed, down to 0.01% precision. And for top/bottom and left/right. Tilting is also measured, again to 0.01% precision.
5) Print defects, snow, fisheyes, etc. are all identified, counted and disclosed, with a listing for each instance identified.
6) Any and all alterations, trims, recoloration, etc. is identified and disclosed with perfect fidelity on an enumerated list, including detail regarding the location of said adjustments.

Bonus: the grading scale will now institute gradations down to 0.01 points for each element. And each of the subgrades will be weighted, with the final grade being a product of each of the weighted valued for the subgrades.

Graders will also be required to write a narrative of one page single space typed to justify each of the subgrades, including factors considered and weighed when making their evaluation. Plus a mandatory essay to extol the virtues of the card, including the degree to which it makes their hearts soar upon beholding it. If not on the flip, then at least available by scanning a QR code on the flip.

Turnaround times will be 2 days or less, including shipping times.

Fees will be $10 or less for each card. Large discounts for bulk orders and vintage cards. The older the card, the bigger the discount.

Shipping is free.

Forgot to mention: Slabs will be indestructible. So no more cracking and resubmitting. Or cracking at all. Once inside a slab with all of these details, it stays there forever.

Not so sure about this business model...

"Fees will be $10 or less for each card. Large discounts for bulk orders and vintage cards. The older the card, the bigger the discount."



...Those Boston Garters are fantastic. Will be fun to watch.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Leon

Not so sure about this business model...

"Fees will be $10 or less for each card. Large discounts for bulk orders and vintage cards. The older the card, the bigger the discount."



...Those Boston Garters are fantastic. Will be fun to watch.

Unfortunately for us type collectors even the lowly commons are, in the words of the great Bob Eucker, "just a bit outside..."

[Beercan collector]

Tip Top Wagner
https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-c...Auction-120115

[brianp-beme]

I know I am holding out for my Boston Garter type card to be from the set where the players are shown in their underwear.

Brian

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

I know I am holding out for my Boston Garter type card to be from the set where the players are shown in their underwear.

Brian

à la Jim Palmer?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by raulus

It seems most everyone has strong feelings about the graders, and I don’t think anyone faults you for feeling like there’s some real room for improvement.

At the same time, pleasing even most of us is probably an impossible task.

But maybe here’s one way to go:

1) Sub grades for each of the four corners.
2) The surface is now divided into four quadrants, with subgrades for each, plus let’s double down with those grades for each zone on each side, front and back.
3) Edges are now broken down into 8 zones, 2 per side, with subgrades for each zone.
4) Centering for both front and back is disclosed, down to 0.01% precision. And for top/bottom and left/right. Tilting is also measured, again to 0.01% precision.
5) Print defects, snow, fisheyes, etc. are all identified, counted and disclosed, with a listing for each instance identified.
6) Any and all alterations, trims, recoloration, etc. is identified and disclosed with perfect fidelity on an enumerated list, including detail regarding the location of said adjustments.

Bonus: the grading scale will now institute gradations down to 0.01 points for each element. And each of the subgrades will be weighted, with the final grade being a product of each of the weighted valued for the subgrades.

Graders will also be required to write a narrative of one page single space typed to justify each of the subgrades, including factors considered and weighed when making their evaluation. Plus a mandatory essay to extol the virtues of the card, including the degree to which it makes their hearts soar upon beholding it. If not on the flip, then at least available by scanning a QR code on the flip.

Turnaround times will be 2 days or less, including shipping times.

Fees will be $10 or less for each card. Large discounts for bulk orders and vintage cards. The older the card, the bigger the discount.

Shipping is free.

Forgot to mention: Slabs will be indestructible. So no more cracking and resubmitting. Or cracking at all. Once inside a slab with all of these details, it stays there forever.

LOL, well done. You should create an auction house business model next!

[Aaron Seefeldt]

Looks like the individuals finished ahead of the group $650,653.20 to $630,000. Congrats to all who were able to add one (or more) to their collection. It’s been 25 years since I owned one of these (I traded away a Walter for a ‘14 CJ Jackson, thanks John Spencer!). I am thrilled to add this one to my collection!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Aaron Seefeldt

Looks like the individuals finished ahead of the group $650,653.20 to $630,000. Congrats to all who were able to add one (or more) to their collection. It’s been 25 years since I owned one of these (I traded away a Walter for a ‘14 CJ Jackson, thanks John Spencer!). I am thrilled to add this one to my collection!

Great card. Congratulations Aaron!
.

[mrreality68]

Great pickup.

They are beautiful cards

[Aaron Seefeldt]

Thanks Leon & Jeff. I’m hoping some other members snagged some and they’ll show and/or tell.

[MVSNYC]

Congrats Aaron!

I owned one of the Tris Speakers many years ago.

Sorry Powell…beyond frustrating how heritage doesn’t tell bidders real time which is winning, set or individual. Other AH’s do…I texted someone I know at heritage yesterday, and they told me the bidder has to check on their own. Great AH, but that was an unusually rare fail for them.

[PhillyFan1883]

Going to give my two cents for what it is worth, because I don't feel it is fair what is going down on this thread generally..

Let me start with I have a tremendous amount of respect for all the legal eagles posting on this thread, and I am just going to state the obvious and leave it there.

I am in the real estate business, and disclosure is always a big issue when things go wrong. For example did the seller of the building disclose there was an obvious defect to his knowledge- just for example sake.. If they disclosed the issue- they are fine and not liable- if they did not disclose and they knew about an issue, they could be in for a shit storm.

Heritage at the bottom of every Boston Garter card disclosed the following--- """""""Please note that this auction will list each card as an individual lot along with another listing for the complete set. If the aggregate winning bids of the twelve individual lots exceeds the high bid on the complete set, the cards will be sold to each individual winner. If the price of the set exceeds the sum of the twelve individual cards, the victory will be awarded to the high bidder for the complete set."""""""""""

The wording is not deceptive, it is black and white. It's not open for interpretation. Heritage disclosed the cards could be sold as a set, or individually depending what gets more- PERIOD.. If someone had intentions of winning the set they had this information and should have bid accordingly, meaning- bid on the individual lots and also the set if there was any doubt. Also they could have reached out to the auction house if you had any questions prior to clarify how the sale would go down..

I have known Derek Grady who brought in the Garters on consignment over 25 years. First as a kid collecting with my Dad who used SGC as our preferred grader, and the last 10 years or so as a consignor and hobby resource for my auction needs... Derek is a class act, and he had nothing but the best intentions for the consignors by running the Garters individually and as a set. Clearly it was very close in price realized whether the set or individual lots would net the sellers the most money- so it was the correct decision to run the auction the way he did... Derek was spot on, and also talking with him at the national the sellers are not card people at all, running the auction with the option for the set to sell, or the cards individually, gave the consignors comfort they absolutely would net the most from a collectible they knew nothing about. By the way again it was in the best interest of his client which I always have found to be true when giving Derek business both ways as a seller and buyer...

I feel for Powel that he bid a tremendous amount of money and thought he won the set, but it clearly was stated on each lot it could go either way. Logistically yes are there some math challenges to know where you stand- yes. That said it was not a hard close, lots were able to be extended with the individual lot close method implemented.. 30 minutes is enough time to run the math.

Be well my friends. I hope this message gives another respectable perspective, and no ill will towards anyone posting. Fair is fair..

Connor Ciallella

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by PhillyFan1883

If someone had intentions of winning the set they had this information and should have bid accordingly, meaning- bid on the individual lots and also the set if there was any doubt.

Connor, respectfully, this is crazy. The bidder who wanted the full set lot should have to bid against himself? Because Heritage screwed up the software/auction? They screwed up! Let them ensure that a real auction occurred, as it didn’t. Even if it means an uncomfortable conversation with the consigner. After all, the consigner may have lost money here (and probably did) due to Heritage’s screwup. No auction house is perfect. But it’s how they handle the glitches that matters.

I agree with you 100% about Derek. He’s the best part of Heritage and the only reason I’d consign with them. And the only reason many people would consign with them.