Poll: BUYERS preferred National Location

[Seven]

Atlantic City. I like the convenience, my hotel room is always free or at a heavy discount, and you can't beat the selection restaurants (Both chain and small businesses). Its proximity to the rest of the Jersey Shore, as well as the chance that there might be a concert of someone interesting performing or a comedy show also gives it bonus points.

[Kevin]

How is NYC as a location? Javits Center ?

[darkhorse9]

Atlanta has everything the buyers and sellers need. It's a days drive from 80 percent of the US population

[SAllen2556]

Originally Posted by darkhorse9

Atlanta has everything the buyers and sellers need. It's a days drive from 80 percent of the US population

Yeah, but it also takes a whole day to drive from one end of Atlanta to the other.

DETROIT! It's the Paris of the Midwest.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

Yeah, but it also takes a whole day to drive from one end of Atlanta to the other.

DETROIT! It's the Paris of the Midwest.

I was actually thinking about Detroit. Too bad Gibraltar in Mt. Clemens is a thing of the past; that building was huge and offered tons of parking. Unfortunately, not exactly ample lodging nearby from what I recall. Then again, it was too old, anyway. Just would have been enough square footage is all I was thinking.

[The Detroit Collector]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

I was actually thinking about Detroit. Too bad Gibraltar in Mt. Clemens is a thing of the past; that building was huge and offered tons of parking. Unfortunately, not exactly ample lodging nearby from what I recall. Then again, it was too old, anyway. Just would have been enough square footage is all I was thinking.

Agree the building was huge. Even the one in Taylor.
Cobo would be good.

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Kevin

How is NYC as a location? Javits Center ?

Forget NYC unless you are packing a firearm. New York City street crime is out of control. My wife and I live in Connecticut and would go down to the City 4/5 times a year on the weekends. No more. Mayors DeBlasio & Adams have turned it into a drug infested shooting gallery, and are more concerned with limiting plastic utensils than fighting crime!

[The Detroit Collector]

I voted for Vegas because I think it checks all the boxes, but personally I would like that National to constantly be moving instead of jumping back and forth from one or two spots. Since it is like the Super Bowl of the hobby, I think it should be treated as one and hit all parts of the country over the years, such as the actual Super Bowl.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by The Detroit Collector

I voted for Vegas because I think it checks all the boxes, but personally I would like that National to constantly be moving instead of jumping back and forth from one or two spots. Since it is like the Super Bowl of the hobby, I think it should be treated as one and hit all parts of the country over the years, such as the actual Super Bowl.

I agree, but the promoters have historically wanted the venue to be given to them for free. That drastically reduces options to the paltry few that some of us are truly tired of. Of course, Chicago's venue already hosts several other shows each year. Tiresome.

[jcmtiger]

I prefer SW FLORIDA Because I live there & we know how to air condition our Buildings unlike any of the northern cities.. Lol

[BobbyStrawberry]

I voted for Vegas, but I'd be more likely to attend if it moved around to different parts of the country. Opportunity to see various cities and make a vacation out of it.

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by jcmtiger

I prefer SW FLORIDA Because I live there & we know how to air condition our Buildings unlike any of the northern cities.. Lol

Plus, 10 minutes from RSW airport to Hertz arena where you could hold a card show.

[Vintagedeputy]

East Coast somewhere.

[toledo_mudhen]

Kansas City - Central Location, Has the venue, Hands down the best BBQ in the world.

[nwfsteve]

I love Vegas but know the convention center is way off the strip and not the easiest place to get to. Baltimore checked all my boxes and AC is fine. Chicago is a no. I didn’t like facility or the area and will not return.

[Chris-Counts]

It's interesting that Las Vegas received the second most votes. I'll bet that many of those who picked Anaheim would be thrilled if the National was in Vegas. At the very least, there should be a West Coast National every few years or so. The last one I went to was Anaheim about 20 years ago.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

Forget NYC unless you are packing a firearm. New York City street crime is out of control. My wife and I live in Connecticut and would go down to the City 4/5 times a year on the weekends. No more. Mayors DeBlasio & Adams have turned it into a drug infested shooting gallery, and are more concerned with limiting plastic utensils than fighting crime!

Time to turn Fox News off and put the NY Post down.

You must be kidding me. A "shooting gallery."

NYC actually at near record LOW crime rates. In the 1980s there were more murders in the Port Authority building in a month than there is in all of NYC in a month currently.

But it is clear that, where murder is concerned, New York City remained one of the safest big cities in the country per capita in 2022, as an analysis from the conservative Illinois organization Wirepoints found. The city’s murder rate in 2022 – roughly 5 murders per 100,000 people – was the third-lowest among the country’s 10 most populous cities, beating Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Phoenix, Philadelphia, San Antonio and Dallas – and better than dozens of cities outside the top 10 on the population list.

The list of US cities with higher murder rates than New York City in 2022 includes New Orleans, St. Louis, Baltimore, Detroit, Denver, Miami, Atlanta, Tampa, Orlando, Jacksonville, Las Vegas, Buffalo, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Washington DC, Kansas City, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Memphis, Nashville, Charlotte, Pittsburgh, Minneapolis, St. Paul, Oakland, Sacramento, Albuquerque, Portland, Newark, Cleveland, Columbus and Toledo.


https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/17/polit...agg/index.html

[nolemmings]

I would love to go to New York, for nearly any reason at any time.

For purposes of this thread, though, I would like to see Las Vegas, or, if "other" is to be considered seriously, I would vote for Kansas City. Centrally located, great BBQ, great music and the Negro League Museum. A very underrated city IMO.

[griffon512]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Time to turn Fox News off and put the NY Post down.

You must be kidding me. A "shooting gallery."

NYC actually at near record LOW crime rates. In the 1980s there were more murders in the Port Authority building in a month than there is in all of NYC in a month currently.

But it is clear that, where murder is concerned, New York City remained one of the safest big cities in the country per capita in 2022, as an analysis from the conservative Illinois organization Wirepoints found. The city’s murder rate in 2022 – roughly 5 murders per 100,000 people – was the third-lowest among the country’s 10 most populous cities, beating Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Phoenix, Philadelphia, San Antonio and Dallas – and better than dozens of cities outside the top 10 on the population list.

The list of US cities with higher murder rates than New York City in 2022 includes New Orleans, St. Louis, Baltimore, Detroit, Denver, Miami, Atlanta, Tampa, Orlando, Jacksonville, Las Vegas, Buffalo, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Washington DC, Kansas City, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Memphis, Nashville, Charlotte, Pittsburgh, Minneapolis, St. Paul, Oakland, Sacramento, Albuquerque, Portland, Newark, Cleveland, Columbus and Toledo.


https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/17/polit...agg/index.html

No, you are wrong. There has been a roughly 1/3 increase in the seven major felony offenses in NYC over the last 5 years, after a steady downward trajectory for many years: https://www.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/down...-2000-2022.pdf

If you only get your news from CNN or The NY Times you'll have a different view, so better to get objective data.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by griffon512

No, you are wrong. There has been a roughly 1/3 increase in the seven major felony offenses in NYC over the last 5 years, after a steady downward trajectory for many years: https://www.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/down...-2000-2022.pdf

If you only get your news from CNN or The NY Times you'll have a different view, so better to get objective data.

I think the numbers are correct in both cases, but I would feel (and would be) much safer in NYC where 433 out of 8,992,908 people were murdered last year than in, say, Dallas, where 248 out of 1,336,347 people were murdered last year.

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by griffon512

No, you are wrong. There has been a roughly 1/3 increase in the seven major felony offenses in NYC over the last 5 years, after a steady downward trajectory for many years: https://www.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/down...-2000-2022.pdf

If you only get your news from CNN or The NY Times you'll have a different view, so better to get objective data.

James, Ty for an intelligent response backed with some real data.

I vote for Las Vegas. I think they could handle the complexities of hosting a large show.

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Time to turn Fox News off and put the NY Post down.

You must be kidding me. A "shooting gallery."

NYC actually at near record LOW crime rates. In the 1980s there were more murders in the Port Authority building in a month than there is in all of NYC in a month currently.

But it is clear that, where murder is concerned, New York City remained one of the safest big cities in the country per capita in 2022, as an analysis from the conservative Illinois organization Wirepoints found. The city’s murder rate in 2022 – roughly 5 murders per 100,000 people – was the third-lowest among the country’s 10 most populous cities, beating Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Phoenix, Philadelphia, San Antonio and Dallas – and better than dozens of cities outside the top 10 on the population list.

The list of US cities with higher murder rates than New York City in 2022 includes New Orleans, St. Louis, Baltimore, Detroit, Denver, Miami, Atlanta, Tampa, Orlando, Jacksonville, Las Vegas, Buffalo, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Washington DC, Kansas City, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Memphis, Nashville, Charlotte, Pittsburgh, Minneapolis, St. Paul, Oakland, Sacramento, Albuquerque, Portland, Newark, Cleveland, Columbus and Toledo.


https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/17/polit...agg/index.html

As usual, you are beyond clueless! If you are so confident in the safety net of NYC, try taking a subway ride during late night off-peak hours. This has nothing to do with Fox News, but the FACT that crime is out of control in all big cities including New York because of no-bail policies. Wake up to reality!

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

As usual, you are beyond clueless! If you are so confident in the safety net of NYC, try taking a subway ride during late night off-peak hours. This has nothing to do with Fox News, but the FACT that crime is out of control in all big cities including New York because of no-bail policies. Wake up to reality!

But, but, big city with "woke" policies = SCARY!

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

But, but, big city with "woke" policies = SCARY!

Exactly. By all means stay away if you are frightened. No judgment here.

Like most any large cities, there are good parts and bad parts, good times and bad times when analyzing crime. I really wouldn't plan on being on a subway in the dead of night, and of course most other cities do not even have subways so as to compare.

Chicago has for decades been called the city where all the horrific shootings and gang activities take place. Yet every three years or so the National takes place on the other side of town during the day, and I really haven't heard anyone here complaining that they won't attend because of crime in the city.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

Forget NYC unless you are packing a firearm. New York City street crime is out of control. My wife and I live in Connecticut and would go down to the City 4/5 times a year on the weekends. No more. Mayors DeBlasio & Adams have turned it into a drug infested shooting gallery, and are more concerned with limiting plastic utensils than fighting crime!

I live on Long Island, work in the Bronx, oldest daughter just graduated FIT. I hear what you are saying, but the Javits Center host Comic Con every year (never been). I don’t think crime is the issue as much as the “expense” of hotels.

I might fly to Cleveland next year just to check this out.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

Forget NYC unless you are packing a firearm. New York City street crime is out of control. My wife and I live in Connecticut and would go down to the City 4/5 times a year on the weekends. No more. Mayors DeBlasio & Adams have turned it into a drug infested shooting gallery, and are more concerned with limiting plastic utensils than fighting crime!

In my memory, which is a long time, it has always been that way. The 1970s? Watch "The French Connection." The 1980s? Holy s**t! I guess Giuliani improved things by ignoring the Constitution, but I think the courts ruled you can't do that. Of course, now all the center cities are rotting from Covid flight. I wonder if things are getting any better in New York now that a long-time cop is mayor? The truth is, there have always been two of every big city in this country. I grew up and spent most of my life in Washington, D.C., and never had any trouble because I knew where to go and where not to. If you don't know your way around any city of any size, you have no business going there. It's a shame, but that's the way it's always been in my lifetime.

[BeanTown]

Maybe the powers to be, who run the National are just afraid of change. They might not realize they could open up the hobby even more, in different parts of the Country. Not sure why it’s the same ole routine year after year. Maybe kick backs are happening, or some kind of perks which keep them loyal to only three places.

[Seven]

As someone that lives in NY, still regularly takes the train, and is often in the city, It's fine. Would I want to be in the subway, or in a rougher part at 3 in the morning? No, but there's pretty much nowhere that I would want to be at 3 AM.

I would love if they did it at the Javits center. I know Comiccon is held there, but I'm sure it's too much of a money issue.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Seven

As someone that lives in NY, still regularly takes the train, and is often in the city, It's fine. Would I want to be in the subway, or in a rougher part at 3 in the morning? No, but there's pretty much nowhere that I would want to be at 3 AM.

This. I would not want to break down on any country road in the middle of the night and not have my gun with me. Or be in any neighborhood bar in one of these small towns they sing about and bump into or even look at some big drunk guy the "wrong way." And I'm a 70-something white guy! This is a really violent country, and if you want to tell me the cities have some kind of monopoly on that, I'll ask you how long it's been since your state had a school shot up and a bunch of kids killed? Probably no more than a few months at best.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Seven

Atlantic City. I like the convenience, my hotel room is always free or at a heavy discount, and you can't beat the selection restaurants (Both chain and small businesses). Its proximity to the rest of the Jersey Shore, as well as the chance that there might be a concert of someone interesting performing or a comedy show also gives it bonus points.

To be fair, I've never visited Atlantic City, but I'm surprised to see it declared the country's (world's?) top restaurant destination.

[perezfan]

What happens in Vegas doesn't really have to stay in Vegas.

Let's get something west of the Mississippi into the rotation. Once every 4-5 years isn't asking a lot.

[x2drich2000]

AC works for me only cause it is close by. Adding flights makes it more travel time, more expensive, and lets be honest, flights haven't been the most reliable lately. Vegas sounds fun on the surface, but the volume of dealers that would need to fly/extensively drive I think make it prohibitive. Below is what I posted last year on the topic with additional data from this year.

While moving the National around I think would be great, I can certainly understand why they stay in the Northeast corner and continue to rotate between the 4 current cities. Below is a break down of the dealers from this years national by name and booths. NY, NJ, PA combined are top 3 and make up 30%. Why not have it where dealers are? Also below is the US Census map from 2020. Again, population density looks to be in the northeast. Why not have it where most people are? To me it is only common sense to keep it in that area from a business standpoint.

2022 AC Dealer List by state
State Dealers Percent Booths Percent
NY 38 11.08% 64 10.63%
NJ 31 9.04% 61 10.13%
PA 30 8.75% 52 8.64%
FL 27 7.87% 56 9.30%
IL 27 7.87% 40 6.64%
TX 19 5.54% 37 6.15%
OH 15 4.37% 25 4.15%
VA 14 4.08% 24 3.99%
MI 14 4.08% 21 3.49%
CA 11 3.21% 22 3.65%
GA 10 2.92% 22 3.65%
MN 9 2.62% 11 1.83%
NC 8 2.33% 12 1.99%
TN 7 2.04% 10 1.66%
IN 7 2.04% 11 1.83%
MD 7 2.04% 13 2.16%
MO 6 1.75% 10 1.66%
WI 5 1.46% 8 1.33%
CT 5 1.46% 12 1.99%
AZ 4 1.17% 6 1.00%
WA 4 1.17% 9 1.50%
KY 4 1.17% 5 0.83%
IA 4 1.17% 7 1.16%
CO 4 1.17% 6 1.00%
AR 3 0.87% 4 0.66%
Canada 3 0.87% 4 0.66%
MA 3 0.87% 4 0.66%
ND 3 0.87% 7 1.16%
KS 2 0.58% 3 0.50%
ME 2 0.58% 2 0.33%
VT 2 0.58% 4 0.66%
SC 2 0.58% 3 0.50%
RI 2 0.58% 3 0.50%
NV 2 0.58% 6 1.00%
DE 2 0.58% 3 0.50%
OK 1 0.29% 1 0.17%
NH 1 0.29% 2 0.33%
NE 1 0.29% 4 0.66%
OR 1 0.29% 4 0.66%
WV 1 0.29% 1 0.17%
ID 1 0.29% 1 0.17%
HI 1 0.29% 2 0.33%
Grand Total 343 100.00% 602 100.00%

2023 Chicago Dealer List by State
State Dealers Percent Booths Percent
FL 29 8.26% 63 9.55%
NY 30 8.55% 57 8.64%
IL 32 9.12% 54 8.18%
NJ 25 7.12% 52 7.88%
PA 29 8.26% 51 7.73%
TX 16 4.56% 31 4.70%
OH 17 4.84% 29 4.39%
MI 16 4.56% 27 4.09%
CA 13 3.70% 26 3.94%
VA 14 3.99% 25 3.79%
GA 10 2.85% 21 3.18%
MD 8 2.28% 16 2.42%
WI 10 2.85% 16 2.42%
MN 8 2.28% 16 2.42%
MO 8 2.28% 15 2.27%
IN 9 2.56% 15 2.27%
NC 8 2.28% 14 2.12%
CT 5 1.42% 13 1.97%
TN 7 1.99% 12 1.82%
IA 6 1.71% 10 1.52%
WA 4 1.14% 10 1.52%
AZ 4 1.14% 8 1.21%
ND 3 0.85% 8 1.21%
NV 4 1.14% 8 1.21%
AR 4 1.14% 7 1.06%
NE 3 0.85% 7 1.06%
MA 4 1.14% 5 0.76%
CO 3 0.85% 5 0.76%
VT 2 0.57% 4 0.61%
KS 2 0.57% 4 0.61%
OR 1 0.28% 4 0.61%
RI 2 0.57% 4 0.61%
KY 2 0.57% 3 0.45%
WV 2 0.57% 3 0.45%
SC 2 0.57% 3 0.45%
ID 2 0.57% 3 0.45%
ME 2 0.57% 2 0.30%
DE 1 0.28% 2 0.30%
NH 1 0.28% 2 0.30%
HI 1 0.28% 2 0.30%
AL 1 0.28% 2 0.30%
OK 1 0.28% 1 0.15%
Grand Total 351 100.00% 660 100.00%

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

. Below is a break down of the dealers from this years national by name and booths. NY, NJ, PA combined are top 3 and make up 30%.

This is something of a self-fulfilling prophecy. OF COURSE more dealers will come from the east if you hold the show in the Midwest or East.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Tabe

This is something of a self-fulfilling prophecy. OF COURSE more dealers will come from the east if you hold the show in the Midwest or East.

Sure, but there simply are far more dealers from that area. The greatest concentration has always been in the Northeast. If the show was held in Van Buren, Arkansas, it wouldn't magically have a huge abundance of dealers from that state just because that's where it was being held. Also remember that people have their table spaces reserved years in advance, so you're going to see mostly the same faces no matter where it's held.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Sure, but there simply are far more dealers from that area. The greatest concentration has always been in the Northeast. If the show was held in Van Buren, Arkansas, it wouldn't magically have a huge abundance of dealers from that state just because that's where it was being held. Also remember that people have their table spaces reserved years in advance, so you're going to see mostly the same faces no matter where it's held.

But we're not talking about Arkansas, are we? Do you really think there would be trouble getting dealers for a California or Vegas National? And, again, it's self-fulfilling - if you announce AC 3 years in advance, of course, you're going to get northeast dealers. But the balance would shift if they announced Vegas for 2029.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Tabe

But we're not talking about Arkansas, are we? Do you really think there would be trouble getting dealers for a California or Vegas National? And, again, it's self-fulfilling - if you announce AC 3 years in advance, of course, you're going to get northeast dealers. But the balance would shift if they announced Vegas for 2029.

That's not really how it works. Remember that table space at this show is such a hot commodity that any additional space wouldn't first simply open up for dealers just because they're from that part of the country. There are already tons of other dealers from all over the place who have been waiting their turn and trying in vain to get in.

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Sure, but there simply are far more dealers from that area. The greatest concentration has always been in the Northeast. If the show was held in Van Buren, Arkansas, it wouldn't magically have a huge abundance of dealers from that state just because that's where it was being held. Also remember that people have their table spaces reserved years in advance, so you're going to see mostly the same faces no matter where it's held.

Well, big pig on the hill would roll down and set up.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Sure, but there simply are far more dealers from that area. The greatest concentration has always been in the Northeast. If the show was held in Van Buren, Arkansas, it wouldn't magically have a huge abundance of dealers from that state just because that's where it was being held. Also remember that people have their table spaces reserved years in advance, so you're going to see mostly the same faces no matter where it's held.

Hey, that would be the easiest National I've ever traveled to since I'm already there!

[Seven]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

To be fair, I've never visited Atlantic City, but I'm surprised to see it declared the country's (world's?) top restaurant destination.

There are honestly some very good restaurants out there. They have a nice balance of places that got their starts in Manhattan and then expanded, and some local favorites that often go under the radar by tourists but are well known to most locals/regular shore visitors.

[mrreality68]

Prefer AC

Like to do these trips with my wife

Tons available hotel rooms within walking distance of convention center


Great Restaurants

Boardwalk

Great evening action between shows, Gambling etc

[bobbvc]

Would be nice if at least 20% of the "Nationals" were on the west coast. Especially since the first one was.

[isiahfan]

Sorry if I missed it if already posted somewhere within the dozens of National threads and all....but have they posted the results of the vote for the 2026 show?

[bcornell]

Originally Posted by bobbvc

Would be nice if at least 20% of the "Nationals" were on the west coast. Especially since the first one was.

I asked John Broggi (soon-to-be-former show organizer) this - how is it a "National" when the event can now only be held in 3 locations?

Mike Berkus once said Anaheim "didn't want us" after 2006 because it's a consumer show and they want, er, whatever the alternative is. Well, if you went to Rosemont in 2023, you know it's just barely a consumer show now.

Stop letting the dealers alone dictate where the show is held. There are fewer and fewer or them and they take bribes (looking at you, AC, with your payola).

Fanatics is going to save us all from these amateurs when they buy the thing and fix it. Maybe.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by bcornell

Fanatics is going to save us all from these amateurs when they buy the thing and fix it. Maybe.

As far as I know, through the information that has been released, Fanatics seems to be setting up a show to "compete" with the National and not replace it. I certainly think there's enough room for two shows to operate. My hope is the fanatics show draws the interest of modern and breakers, and the National gets a little more back to its roots. I would not be devastated to see the nonsense of Whatnot leave the national. Breakers/breaking culture, is a plague on the Hobby IMO.

[Bigdaddy]

DC/Baltimore or Atlanta.

There's always a ballgame in the DC/Baltimore area as the O's and Nats switch off on who is home on any given day. Some large convention centers in those cities.

[kailes2872]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

To be fair, I've never visited Atlantic City, but I'm surprised to see it declared the country's (world's?) top restaurant destination.

They might have gotten that distinction on Chef Vola's alone!

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by kailes2872

They might have gotten that distinction on Chef Vola's alone!

AC has some truly excellent restaurants. However for real foodies it ain't Vegas.

I have zero doub I could get a far better meal one mile from the AC Convention center than I could at almost any current National site.