Best team with no HOFers or HOF caliber players?

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by packs

I think Posey is a lock for the HOF as well and I don't see a lot of similarities between his career and Munson's. Posey won a batting title, which is very unusual for a catcher. I can't think of an unusual aspect of Munson's game or anything that would separate him from another borderline catcher. Posey also went out on his own terms with a monster final season. His OPS+ is significantly higher than Munson's and even their prime OPS+ numbers put Posey significantly ahead in terms of production in any single season.

So you don't see any similarities between two catchers that both won Rookie of the Year, both won MVP, both were 7x All Stars, both won multiple World Series, and both won Gold Gloves?

As far as peak goes, Munson's WAR 7 is higher than Posey's.

Last, Posey played 229 games at first base, so he needed to be a better hitter than Munson to be a fair comparison.

[packs]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

So you don't see any similarities between two catchers that both won Rookie of the Year, both won MVP, both were 7x All Stars, both won multiple World Series, and both won Gold Gloves?

As far as peak goes, Munson's WAR 7 is higher than Posey's.

Last, Posey played 229 games at first base, so he needed to be a better hitter than Munson to be a fair comparison.

No, I don't see any comparison. Munson was not the player Posey was, for several reasons:

Posey was a 300 hitter for his career. Munson was not. This is an important stat for catchers as they are rarely 300 hitters.

Posey won a batting title. Another rarity for catchers.

Posey has a career OPS+ of 129 compared to Munson's 116.

Munson's prime wasn't all that special either. The year he won MVP his OPS+ was 126, below Posey's career average. Posey's OPS+ during his MVP season was 171 and led the league.

Again, Posey was doing special things and Munson was not.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by packs

No, I don't see any comparison. Munson was not the player Posey was, for several reasons:

Posey was a 300 hitter for his career. Munson was not. This is an important stat for catchers as they are rarely 300 hitters.

Posey won a batting title. Another rarity for catchers.

Posey has a career OPS+ of 129 compared to Munson's 116.

Munson's prime wasn't all that special either. The year he won MVP his OPS+ was 126, below Posey's career average. Posey's OPS+ during his MVP season was 171 and led the league.

Again, Posey was doing special things and Munson was not.

So you aren't even going to acknowledge that Posey played a season as a half as a first baseman?

[packs]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

So you aren't even going to acknowledge that Posey played a season as a half as a first baseman?

How does it factor into anything? I'm not going to mention Munson's untimely death either.

Looks like Munson appeared as a DH 77 times and had another 50 plus appearances in the outfield himself. Not sure it matters, does it?

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by packs

How does it factor into anything? I'm not going to mention Munson's untimely death either.

Is this a serious question? Frist base is arguably the easiest fielding position.
So people that play First Base are generally players that hit well and field poorly. If you don't hit extremely well, then you probably can't make an MLB roster as a first baseman.

An above average hitting catcher is way more valuable to a team than 1st baseman that only hits slightly better. This is the exact reason why Munson's WAR and WAR7 are higher than Posey's. That and Munson was arguably a better fielder. Fielding matters as a catcher. Munson lead the League in throwing out runners twice. Posey never did.

[packs]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Is this a serious question? Frist base is arguably the easiest fielding position.
So people that play First Base are generally players that hit well and field poorly. If you don't hit extremely well, then you probably can't make an MLB roster as a first baseman.

An above average catcher is way more valuable to a team than 1st baseman that only hits slightly better. This is the exact reason why Munson's WAR and WAR7 are higher than Posey's. That and Munson was arguably a better fielder. Fielding matters as a catcher. Munson lead the League in throwing out runners twice. Posey never did.

What's wrong with resting players? On the days Posey played first, isn't it reasonable for a team to still want him in the line up and be interested in resting his knees? He wasn't in the universal DH era.

I guess you didn't see my edit above that included Munson appearing as a DH 77 times and an outfielder over 50 times himself.

[Peter_Spaeth]

As the OP I don't accept the Giants answer LOL. Any other candidates?

[rats60]

The only MLB catcher in the HOF with a higher OPS+ than Posey is Mike Piazza. Mickey Cochrane is also at 129. Posey is going in easy, probably a 1st ballot HOFer.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by packs

What's wrong with resting players? On the days Posey played first, isn't it reasonable for a team to still want him in the line up and be interested in resting his knees?

I guess you didn't see my edit above that included Munson appearing as a DH 77 times and an outfielder over 50 times himself.

Posey had 838 plate appearances at 1B, 133 as DH and 66 as PH

Munson had 19 plate appearances at 1B, 336 as DH and 64 as PH. Munson also had played appearances at RF (92), LF (14), and 3B (3). In other words, Munson was more versatile than Posey.

I am not saying Posey doesn't belong in the HOF. I am saying that it might be a bitter pill to swallow if Posey made it in before Munson.