Thinking About Writing A Book

[HercDriver]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

Would rather see Don Mattingly in before Hernandez
Higher BA (.307 to .296)
More HR's (222 to 162)
More All Star Games (6 to 5)
Hernandez did have 11 gold gloves to Donnie's 9

Seinfeld episodes:
Hernandez: 2
Mattingly: 0

[Mark17]

No way the Dodgers win those 4 pennants and 3 World Series from 1959-1966 without Maury Wills. His 104 stolen bases in '62 was epic, and his 2134 career hits are impressive when you consider he broke in as a 26-year-old rookie.

He'd also be an interesting story, with the angle of Topps not signing him to their standard contract because they thought he had little chance to even make the big leagues.

He came very close to making the Hall a few years ago, but last time was mostly forgotten, as Oliva, Minoso, Kaat and Hodges got in.

[G1911]

All the names mentioned:

Dick Allen - Great rate stats, I would vote for him.

Ross Barnes - Truly egregious he is not in.

Vida Blue - Borderline that could go either way. Probably gets in eventually as he's near the top of the waterdown list.

Ken Boyer - Good candidate, near the top of his position not in. Not sure that's enough though.

Dave Concepcion - Good glove, below average bat. If he was not part of a famous franchise he would not be considered.

Gavvy Cravath - Great rate states, barely played. 1,221 games. Not a real candidate, but played like one for a few years. Homer totals heavily inflated by a ridiculously short fence. Short career + context have correctly kept him out.

Bill Dahlen - I would vote for him.

Steve Garvey - Possibly the most overrated 1B in baseball history. .294/.329/.446 as a 1B is not a HOFer. Relies heavily on people liking him when why we're young, which is always a clue a candidate is not a real candidate. If they are a good choice, people who like them will still use the math instead of sentiment when making the case. When the argument is about sentiment, red flag.

Jack Glasscock - I would vote for him.

Keith Hernandez - No slouch at the plate, but his batting line is not competitive with a 1B HOFer. One must place a heavy value on 1B defense to make a logical argument for him, which I don't think is really supportable. Hall of Very Good.

Tommy John - Borderline, probably going in as few starters since 1900 are better than him and not in, his fame from the surgery endures, and they just elected Kaat.

Kenny Lofton - Embarrassing he fell off the ballot his first year. He is on the border and deserves a serious look instead of an instant dismissal.

Mickey Lolich - 217-191 with an ERA 4% over the league. This is not a serious candidate, we would need to elect ~50 other starters first.

Sparky Lyle - Hard to take him as a serious candidate using math.

Don Mattingly - 80's rookie card fans and Yankees fans are not a reason to induct people. His state line is again not competitive with HOF 1B. He may get in on sentiment, but not merit.

Jim McCormick - Clearly meritous.

Thurman Munson - One of, maybe the, best at his position not in, reasonable electee but not overlooked, right on the edge. I would vote against.

Graig Nettles - One of the best at his position not in. A candidate, I would vote no, but not an unreasonable expansion.

Lefty O'Doul - One would have to amend the criteria to include Japan. He is, like Stephenson, not a real candidate on the basis of his MLB playing performance but did a lot of other things.

Al Oliver - I don't think hitting .300 alone is enough.

Willie Randolph - Closer than some would think, but still not there. A good example of the excess of WAR, which loves his league average bat.

Curt Schilling - He is not in for being a loudmouth for the political party the media hates. He is obviously meritous when one restricts it to the math. If his comments and jokes were to the detriment of the groups the voter base hates, he would have been in ballot 1.

Gary Sheffield - Notorious steroid user, he is out for that reason (as only Ortiz is exempted from responsibility because reasons and corruption). Not a serious contender.

Riggs Stephenson - Great rate stats, barely played. Hit 100 games 5 times. Not a real HOF candidate, but a great player who could have been.

Cecil Travis - One of the most overrated players in baseball history. He had 1 great season, and 3 more between 110-120 OPS+. His candidacy is based on sentiment and a fantasy fiction what if. Not a real candidate if one accepts a mathematical basis.

Lou Whitaker - Real borderline, edge case who could reasonably not go in or reasonably go in. Trammell's election pretty much guarantees he's going in on a committee ballot at some point here.

Smoky Joe Wood - 1,400 IP. Not a serious candidate for anything other than people like his story.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by G1911

All the names mentioned:

Dick Allen - Great rate stats, I would vote for him.

Ross Barnes - Truly egregious he is not in.

Vida Blue - Borderline that could go either way. Probably gets in eventually as he's near the top of the waterdown list.

Ken Boyer - Good candidate, near the top of his position not in. Not sure that's enough though.

Dave Concepcion - Good glove, below average bat. If he was not part of a famous franchise he would not be considered.

Gavvy Cravath - Great rate states, barely played. 1,221 games. Not a real candidate, but played like one for a few years. Homer totals heavily inflated by a ridiculously short fence. Short career + context have correctly kept him out.

Bill Dahlen - I would vote for him.

Steve Garvey - Possibly the most overrated 1B in baseball history. .294/.329/.446 as a 1B is not a HOFer. Relies heavily on people liking him when why we're young, which is always a clue a candidate is not a real candidate. If they are a good choice, people who like them will still use the math instead of sentiment when making the case. When the argument is about sentiment, red flag.

Jack Glasscock - I would vote for him.

Keith Hernandez - No slouch at the plate, but his batting line is not competitive with a 1B HOFer. One must place a heavy value on 1B defense to make a logical argument for him, which I don't think is really supportable. Hall of Very Good.

Tommy John - Borderline, probably going in as few starters since 1900 are better than him and not in, his fame from the surgery endures, and they just elected Kaat.

Kenny Lofton - Embarrassing he fell off the ballot his first year. He is on the border and deserves a serious look instead of an instant dismissal.

Mickey Lolich - 217-191 with an ERA 4% over the league. This is not a serious candidate, we would need to elect ~50 other starters first.

Sparky Lyle - Hard to take him as a serious candidate using math.

Don Mattingly - 80's rookie card fans and Yankees fans are not a reason to induct people. His state line is again not competitive with HOF 1B. He may get in on sentiment, but not merit.

Jim McCormick - Clearly meritous.

Thurman Munson - One of, maybe the, best at his position not in, reasonable electee but not overlooked, right on the edge. I would vote against.

Graig Nettles - One of the best at his position not in. A candidate, I would vote no, but not an unreasonable expansion.

Lefty O'Doul - One would have to amend the criteria to include Japan. He is, like Stephenson, not a real candidate on the basis of his MLB playing performance but did a lot of other things.

Al Oliver - I don't think hitting .300 alone is enough.

Willie Randolph - Closer than some would think, but still not there. A good example of the excess of WAR, which loves his league average bat.

Curt Schilling - He is not in for being a loudmouth for the political party the media hates. He is obviously meritous when one restricts it to the math. If his comments and jokes were to the detriment of the groups the voter base hates, he would have been in ballot 1.

Gary Sheffield - Notorious steroid user, he is out for that reason (as only Ortiz is exempted from responsibility because reasons and corruption). Not a serious contender.

Riggs Stephenson - Great rate stats, barely played. Hit 100 games 5 times. Not a real HOF candidate, but a great player who could have been.

Cecil Travis - One of the most overrated players in baseball history. He had 1 great season, and 3 more between 110-120 OPS+. His candidacy is based on sentiment and a fantasy fiction what if. Not a real candidate if one accepts a mathematical basis.

Lou Whitaker - Real borderline, edge case who could reasonably not go in or reasonably go in. Trammell's election pretty much guarantees he's going in on a committee ballot at some point here.

Smoky Joe Wood - 1,400 IP. Not a serious candidate for anything other than people like his story.

Every single one of these guys gets my vote over Harold Baines.

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by G1911

All the names mentioned:



Dick Allen - Great rate stats, I would vote for him.



Ross Barnes - Truly egregious he is not in.



Vida Blue - Borderline that could go either way. Probably gets in eventually as he's near the top of the waterdown list.



Ken Boyer - Good candidate, near the top of his position not in. Not sure that's enough though.



Dave Concepcion - Good glove, below average bat. If he was not part of a famous franchise he would not be considered.



Gavvy Cravath - Great rate states, barely played. 1,221 games. Not a real candidate, but played like one for a few years. Homer totals heavily inflated by a ridiculously short fence. Short career + context have correctly kept him out.



Bill Dahlen - I would vote for him.



Steve Garvey - Possibly the most overrated 1B in baseball history. .294/.329/.446 as a 1B is not a HOFer. Relies heavily on people liking him when why we're young, which is always a clue a candidate is not a real candidate. If they are a good choice, people who like them will still use the math instead of sentiment when making the case. When the argument is about sentiment, red flag.



Jack Glasscock - I would vote for him.



Keith Hernandez - No slouch at the plate, but his batting line is not competitive with a 1B HOFer. One must place a heavy value on 1B defense to make a logical argument for him, which I don't think is really supportable. Hall of Very Good.



Tommy John - Borderline, probably going in as few starters since 1900 are better than him and not in, his fame from the surgery endures, and they just elected Kaat.



Kenny Lofton - Embarrassing he fell off the ballot his first year. He is on the border and deserves a serious look instead of an instant dismissal.



Mickey Lolich - 217-191 with an ERA 4% over the league. This is not a serious candidate, we would need to elect ~50 other starters first.



Sparky Lyle - Hard to take him as a serious candidate using math.



Don Mattingly - 80's rookie card fans and Yankees fans are not a reason to induct people. His state line is again not competitive with HOF 1B. He may get in on sentiment, but not merit.



Jim McCormick - Clearly meritous.



Thurman Munson - One of, maybe the, best at his position not in, reasonable electee but not overlooked, right on the edge. I would vote against.



Graig Nettles - One of the best at his position not in. A candidate, I would vote no, but not an unreasonable expansion.



Lefty O'Doul - One would have to amend the criteria to include Japan. He is, like Stephenson, not a real candidate on the basis of his MLB playing performance but did a lot of other things.



Al Oliver - I don't think hitting .300 alone is enough.



Willie Randolph - Closer than some would think, but still not there. A good example of the excess of WAR, which loves his league average bat.



Curt Schilling - He is not in for being a loudmouth for the political party the media hates. He is obviously meritous when one restricts it to the math. If his comments and jokes were to the detriment of the groups the voter base hates, he would have been in ballot 1.



Gary Sheffield - Notorious steroid user, he is out for that reason (as only Ortiz is exempted from responsibility because reasons and corruption). Not a serious contender.



Riggs Stephenson - Great rate stats, barely played. Hit 100 games 5 times. Not a real HOF candidate, but a great player who could have been.



Cecil Travis - One of the most overrated players in baseball history. He had 1 great season, and 3 more between 110-120 OPS+. His candidacy is based on sentiment and a fantasy fiction what if. Not a real candidate if one accepts a mathematical basis.



Lou Whitaker - Real borderline, edge case who could reasonably not go in or reasonably go in. Trammell's election pretty much guarantees he's going in on a committee ballot at some point here.



Smoky Joe Wood - 1,400 IP. Not a serious candidate for anything other than people like his story.

Actually had no clue Gary was a Roider. Guess it was barely reported compared to bonds and mark.

I think Joe should get a little extra consideration because his time as a hitter was quite good. And that was very impressive making the switch a decade into his career.
Also the fact the best players of the time, Wajo, Cobb, the list goes on and on have quotes listing Joe as one of the top pitchers of the day. You can’t overlook that.

I remember a quote somebody said about Joe to me. “There are players in the hall who pitched double the amount of games as Smokey Joe Wood. But they were only half as good as him”

Strange to think about. If that’s true or not.

[jingram058]

This is excellent. Just excellent. The list is starting to come together, becoming chapters.

Love the comment "I would take every one of them over Baines".

Question - do you think I should stop before the modern era, avoiding controversy? A few of the names listed might actually get in at some point. Or just go with it?

[Casey2296]

As a member of the pre-war committee, Ross Barnes, Bill Dahlen, Joe Wood, & Lefty O'Doul all get my vote, if Buck O'Neil gets in for being an ambassador of the game so does O'Doul. I'd also induct Joe Jackson.

[Chicosbailbonds]

Dwight Evans, Dave Parker

Speaking of Harold Baines, his career numbers are very similar to Tony Perez.

[Georj]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Bill Freehan. He was the best catcheer or his era.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Chicosbailbonds

Dwight Evans, Dave Parker

Speaking of Harold Baines, his career numbers are very similar to Tony Perez.

Parker was the most feared hitter in baseball for a 5 year stretch, plus that arm. I’m on the fence, but I’m saying “yes”

[conor912]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Or just go with it?

If your book gains any traction, that’s a risk you run no matter what era. Roll with it 😀