Thinking About Writing A Book

BobbyStrawberry · #1 07-30-2023, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

Would rather see Don Mattingly in before Hernandez
Higher BA (.307 to .296)
More HR's (222 to 162)
More All Star Games (6 to 5)
Hernandez did have 11 gold gloves to Donnie's 9

Also:

Hernandez's career WAR is 60.3 vs. Donnie's 42.4
Keith's career OBP is .384 vs. Mattingly's .358

John1941 · #2 07-30-2023, 04:50 PM

How is Riggs Stephenson an "egregious oversight" if he wasn't good enough to be a regular? He had four years as a regular out 14 major league seasons. (I understand that was complicated a little by injuries, but people don't get elected on "might-have-beens.") To me he seems to be roughly equivalent to John Kruk.

brianp-beme · #3 07-30-2023, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John1941

How is Riggs Stephenson an "egregious oversight" if he wasn't good enough to be a regular? He had four years as a regular out 14 major league seasons. (I understand that was complicated a little by injuries, but people don't get elected on "might-have-beens.") To me he seems to be roughly equivalent to John Kruk.

Surprisingly enough, I happen to be the founding member of the John Kruk Hall of Fame Egregious Oversight Society (JKHFEOS). Meetings are held 8pm third Tuesday of each month at select laundromats across the country. Thanks to this thread, how Riggs Stephenson stacks up to John Kruk will be the headlining topic at the next meeting.

Brian

Snapolit1 · #4 07-30-2023, 05:27 PM

Most people will go to the mat for an overlooked player who, absolutely conincidentally, was their childhood hero at age 15.

refz · #5 07-31-2023, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Most people will go to the mat for an overlooked player who, absolutely conincidentally, was their childhood hero at age 15.

My childhood hero was Mattingly. That being said, in my opinion he don�t belong in. He was good (great) for couple of years and that�s it. Unless his managerial credentials amount to anything, still a no. Players that fall in this category regardless, no!!!!

bbcard1 · #6 08-01-2023, 01:54 PM

A few I would like to add to your list that I didn't see:
Bert Campaneris
Sal Bando
Craig Nettles
Buddy Bell
Stan Hack
Willie Davis
Rick Rueschel. I think Rick would have gotten a lot more consideration if he didn't look like a butcher wearing a baseball uniform. This is not an insult as my build closely resembles Rick Rueschels.

I would encourage you to move forward with the project. It is a long road, but with Amazon it is quite doable. Feel free to reach out to me if I can be of assistance in any way.

The hardest thing you have to tackle is what the Hall of Fame should be. There are a few players no one can possibly have an issue with (Ruth, Cobb, Bench, Willams, Gehirg) Several that are fairly clearly hall of famers, some that are kind of the average hall of famers, and some that are entirely questionable (Lloyd Waner, Baines, Lindstrom, Kelly). Where would you propose your candidates fit? The Hall of Fame is not an ideal place in that there is not standard of excellence that is clearly established...but it would make a fun discussion.

Kevin · #7 08-01-2023, 03:34 PM

Ed Reulbach was the 3rd best pitcher on the Cubs at that time?

doug.goodman · #8 07-31-2023, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Most people will go to the mat for an overlooked player who, absolutely conincidentally, was their childhood hero at age 15.

Yep, you are absolutely right, and mine was Steve Garvey, and he was great, but I'm sorry, he doesn't quite make it in on my ballot.

Doug "sadly" Goodman

Huck · #9 07-30-2023, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Surprisingly enough, I happen to be the founding member of the John Kruk Hall of Fame Egregious Oversight Society (JKHFEOS). Meetings are held 8pm third Tuesday of each month at select laundromats across the country. Thanks to this thread, how Riggs Stephenson stacks up to John Kruk will be the headlining topic at the next meeting.

Brian

I would like to join the club.

brianp-beme · #10 07-31-2023, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huck

I would like to join the club.

Unfortunately since the time I posted yesterday, the John Kruk Hall of Fame Egregious Oversight Society (JKHFEOS) has disbanded, due to outside agitators and provocateurs pushing a Manny Trillo for the Hall agenda, utilizing an anti-Kruk disinformation campaign to boost Manny's chances.

To keep Trillo and his malicious de-facto supporters from de-legitimizing the Hall of Fame and its induction standards, Kruk's Egregious Oversight status needs to be publicly diminished on various platforms and campaigns, including the JKHFEOS at this point of time, to minimize the Trillo faction from gaining traction in this Hall of Fame struggle for supremacy.

Brian

jingram058 · #11 07-31-2023, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Unfortunately since the time I posted yesterday, the John Kruk Hall of Fame Egregious Oversight Society (JKHFEOS) has disbanded, due to outside agitators and provocateurs pushing a Manny Trillo for the Hall agenda, utilizing an anti-Kruk disinformation campaign to boost Manny's chances.

To keep Trillo and his malicious de-facto supporters from de-legitimizing the Hall of Fame and its induction standards, Kruk's Egregious Oversight status needs to be publicly diminished on various platforms and campaigns, including the JKHFEOS at this point of time, to minimize the Trillo faction from gaining traction in this Hall of Fame struggle for supremacy.

Brian

Ahem...Kruk lives around here. See him regularly at the Publix grocery store across the street from where we live.

jingram058 · #12 07-31-2023, 06:42 PM

Ned Williamson? George Gore? Bobby Lowe?

jingram058 · #13 07-30-2023, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John1941

How is Riggs Stephenson an "egregious oversight" if he wasn't good enough to be a regular? He had four years as a regular out 14 major league seasons. (I understand that was complicated a little by injuries, but people don't get elected on "might-have-beens.") To me he seems to be roughly equivalent to John Kruk.

Well, he was injured playing college football, which ruined his throwing arm (people find that interesting). He has a greater than .300 lifetime MLB batting average (people find that interesting, too). He's going into the book. If that offends you, sorry, there's no debate. Don't buy or read the book, if it gets published if it bothers you. It bothers me, a lot, given that he was a household name when he played for the Cubs, that he's not in the HOF. I know this because of all the old scrapbooks I have. Him and guys like him are the whole point of the book idea. If you're going to put McGriff, Rolen and Baines in, while overlooking household names from the past, well, that's why I intend to publish this book.

JollyElm · #14 07-30-2023, 06:27 PM

Make sure you do a deep dive with each of your subjects, namely how they were perceived and respected by their teammates and opponents. That inside insight is invaluable as to what their worth truly was on the field. For instance, Keith Hernandez was brought up. That guy was a frickin' leader and a huge driver of those successful Mets teams. The theoretical WAR that everyone always seems to immediately turn to tells us nothing about that aspect of a player's impact on the game.

BobbyStrawberry · #15 07-30-2023, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyElm

The theoretical WAR that everyone always seems to immediately turn to tells us nothing about that aspect of a player's impact on the game.

For gameplay, that's exactly what WAR does. It does not capture things like leadership in the clubhouse, however

jingram058 · #16 07-30-2023, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Make sure you do a deep dive with each of your subjects, namely how they were perceived and respected by their teammates and opponents. That inside insight is invaluable as to what their worth truly was on the field. For instance, Keith Hernandez was brought up. That guy was a frickin' leader and a huge driver of those successful Mets teams. The theoretical WAR that everyone always seems to immediately turn to tells us nothing about that aspect of a player's impact on the game.

You are exactly right, sir. +1 agree totally. By all means, Keith Hernandez goes in. Mattingly goes in, too.

I know there will be folks upset about some of these guys going in. Likewise, there will be someone who doesn't go in, that I somehow overlook. I will do my best with it.

What I envision at this point is to go chronologically, 1800s to now. In the end, I will come up with a list, and go with it.

John1941 · #17 07-30-2023, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jingram058

Well, he was injured playing college football, which ruined his throwing arm (people find that interesting). He has a greater than .300 lifetime MLB batting average (people find that interesting, too). He's going into the book. If that offends you, sorry, there's no debate. Don't buy or read the book, if it gets published if it bothers you. It bothers me, a lot, given that he was a household name when he played for the Cubs, that he's not in the HOF. I know this because of all the old scrapbooks I have. Him and guys like him are the whole point of the book idea. If you're going to put McGriff, Rolen and Baines in, while overlooking household names from the past, well, that's why I intend to publish this book.

It sounds like he has a very interesting story and I'd love reading about him - but I'm very argumentative about baseball so I was just responding to that specific HOF claim. I guess this is not the appropriate thread to be arguing against selections.

jingram058 · #18 07-30-2023, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John1941

It sounds like he has a very interesting story and I'd love reading about him - but I'm very argumentative about baseball so I was just responding to that specific HOF claim. I guess this is not the appropriate thread to be arguing against selections.

Well, heck, argue away, sir! It's more than appropriate. These discussions are how I learn!

insidethewrapper · #19 07-30-2023, 07:27 PM

Lou Whitaker
Mickey Lolich

perezfan · #20 07-30-2023, 07:35 PM

I don't see Richie Allen mentioned yet, but I may have just missed it. From that general era, I would also suggest Tommy John, Al Oliver and Dave Concepcion (who I saw was previously mentioned).

Kevin · #21 07-30-2023, 07:53 PM

Compare Catfish Hunter and Vida Blue stats

chalupacollects · #22 07-30-2023, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Also:

Hernandez's career WAR is 60.3 vs. Donnie's 42.4
Keith's career OBP is .384 vs. Mattingly's .358

Hernandez got a ring�

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

conor912 · #23 07-30-2023, 05:03 PM

I�m all for anything that calls the HOF out on their ridiculousness.

cgjackson222 · #24 07-30-2023, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

Hernandez got a ring…

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With two different teams, and and he is in both of their Hall of Fames.

Going way back, I'd choose Jim McCormick.

And for a more recent guy--Kenny Lofton.

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