Any issue with bring up comps when buying or selling a card?

[JustinD]

I feel like comps and VCP are complete waste of time with negotiating and pulling them up to be a Karen will ultimately sour your negotiations and ruin your purchase as well as your next possible one in the future. It's a terrible idea.

On the opposite side of the coin they are undoubtedly important to look up for yourself to educate prior to a negotiation. You should step away or quietly look before deciding to offer.

Anything and everything known to man has a value that is truly what you or another is willing to pay, what happened another time is negatable. For myself, I will look at prices and decide a ceiling and start talking. If we can't meet, I am comfortable walking away. I may also thank someone in a failed discussion for the effort, and kindly leave my number with a mention that the offer stands unless I find another that meets my needs. Because I was reasonable and treated someone with respect, I have received many a phone call later and settled over the phone. Those people will remember how you didn't whine or beat them up.

Just like a date, if it's no, take the no and go home. Pushing it will just get you a bad rep. Maybe the next time around your good nature will get to home base.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I feel like comps and VCP are complete waste of time with negotiating and pulling them up to be a Karen will ultimately sour your negotiations and ruin your purchase as well as your next possible one in the future. It's a terrible idea.

On the opposite side of the coin they are undoubtedly important to look up for yourself to educate prior to a negotiation. You should step away or quietly look before deciding to offer.

Anything and everything known to man has a value that is truly what you or another is willing to pay, what happened another time is negatable. For myself, I will look at prices and decide a ceiling and start talking. If we can't meet, I am comfortable walking away. I may also thank someone in a failed discussion for the effort, and kindly leave my number with a mention that the offer stands unless I find another that meets my needs. Because I was reasonable and treated someone with respect, I have received many a phone call later and settled over the phone. Those people will remember how you didn't whine or beat them up.

Just like a date, if it's no, take the no and go home. Pushing it will just get you a bad rep. Maybe the next time around your good nature will get to home base.

When I was set up at the MPls show this past spring...and this was my first time ever set up at a show...customers would routinely stand at my table with their phone in front of them looking up comps. In fact this was the norm. It didn't really bother me as i was there to try to sell...not gouge. There was still a negotiation after being presented with this info.

This is the way it is now.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

When I was set up at the MPls show this past spring...and this was my first time ever set up at a show...customers would routinely stand at my table with their phone in front of them looking up comps. In fact this was the norm. It didn't really bother me as i was there to try to sell...not gouge. There was still a negotiation after being presented with this info.

This is the way it is now.

Oh, definitely.

I meant much like what Adam mentioned, do the homework first. I do it off to the side or quietly after a quick excuse me, to avoid seeming rude. I also think the people that jam phones with comps in peoples faces seem like a tool.

I don't pretend that the dealer has no clue what the card is worth, it's a very rare day in which something is underpriced vs over. That's not a coincidence.

I just expect the usual each time: Dealer sets original price at highest ever plus 10% as a beginning. I do my research, if there are comps I may set a mental price around the average range of purchase prices with the newest most weighted. If the comps are zero, that's out the window and it's set on how much I really want it. My error card purchases seem to always fall in this bucket, lol.

We chat and hopefully come to a happy spot for everyone, if not...no hard feelings. I don't discuss comps, I often just say a general statement of "based on what I have seen sold lately, I would be comfortable here. I hope that works with you." As said before, I seldom meet a clueless vintage dealer that has no idea of what they have. My experiences walking with my son and dealing with the modern dealers that just started during the pandemic and have discussions about what "Market Movers" has as hot cards...not so much.

[JollyElm]

Here are a couple of things pertinent to the topic from my 'Collectorisms' thread...

885. Phonaticism
Surging headlong into negotiation battles at card shows with your cell phone - and the vast amount of past-sales data and other effective ammunition it holds - leading the charge.

973. The Blind Leading the Deaf (derogative)
An assessment of dealers whose pricing is not only a refusal to see what cards actually sell for, but who also won’t listen no matter how much documented proof of recent sales prices is presented to them.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Oh, definitely.

it's a very rare day in which something is underpriced vs over. That's not a coincidence.

Mainly because anything underpriced was purchased by another dealer during set-up.

[jethrod3]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I feel like comps and VCP are complete waste of time with negotiating and pulling them up to be a Karen will ultimately sour your negotiations and ruin your purchase as well as your next possible one in the future. It's a terrible idea.

On the opposite side of the coin they are undoubtedly important to look up for yourself to educate prior to a negotiation. You should step away or quietly look before deciding to offer.

Anything and everything known to man has a value that is truly what you or another is willing to pay, what happened another time is negatable. For myself, I will look at prices and decide a ceiling and start talking. If we can't meet, I am comfortable walking away. I may also thank someone in a failed discussion for the effort, and kindly leave my number with a mention that the offer stands unless I find another that meets my needs. Because I was reasonable and treated someone with respect, I have received many a phone call later and settled over the phone. Those people will remember how you didn't whine or beat them up.

Agree with Justin D. I think it's not unreasonable to do some homework before going to the show to purchase a couple of big ticket items. It's not much work, really. And as others have mentioned, it's also all about wiggle room for the cards that are really in demand----asking for and getting more $$ is what causes the prices to go up, and many of us that own at least one 1933 Goudey Ruth that they bought 10+ years ago are probably happy that some transactions in the past few couple of years ended up being on the high side of the original negotiation.

The idea of leaving a dealer's table on a positive note is good advice for folks, especially newbies. I've gotten to know several dealers, some of whom I have never bought from for one reason or another (usually because they just don't have what I'm looking for at that particular time). But you may come back to that dealer next year, and the good rapport you created in the past may lead to a successful and mutually rewarding negotiation then.

I'm glad that my white whales these days are going to be confined to mid-grade cards that are in demand yet not scarce. That allows comparison-shopping. Not looking for a 1933 Goudey Ruth anymore. Would buy a Goudey Gehrig PSA 3 if I found one with great eye appeal at a fair price, but am mostly looking for cards like 1960 Fleer Ruth and Gehrigs in the PSA 6 range. And some 1955 Topps baseball star cards. These are fairly plentiful---they are popular, but not in as much demand as some of the other cards and in better conditions that would bankrupt me. So I'll do my homework and be ready to engage in the chase!!

[Exhibitman]

It's all about using a little common sense and courtesy in dealing in person. We've all forgotten a bit on that score over the last few years. I'm setting up at the big Labor Day Weekend show in Anaheim this September, and I try to listen more than I talk, treat everyone with respect, and be aware of what I am and am not willing to accept on any given card. You want a deal on 500 cards from my bargain boxes? We'll talk. You want a deal on an N28? Not so much.

[rjackson44]

I own 200 t206s probably over paid for everyone of them .I sleep well at night .

[Eric72]

Using comps to educate yourself...good.

Using comps in an effort to "educate" someone else...not so much.

[ullmandds]

I am not so sure why so many people have problems with potential buyers bringing up comps? Sure there are cards that sells so infrequently that comps are useless. But for more commonly sold or traded issues, comps are quite valuable. They are certainly a good starting point for negotiation. Many dealers prices are detached from reality, especially at the national. I have no problem with someone showing me proof that my prices are out of line.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I am not so sure why so many people have problems with potential buyers bringing up comps? Sure there are cards that sells so infrequently that comps are useless. But for more commonly sold or traded issues, comps are quite valuable. They are certainly a good starting point for negotiation. Many dealers prices are detached from reality, especially at the national. I have no problem with someone showing me proof that my prices are out of line.

Exactly Pete....I think some dealers get frustrated because they may have bought in auction and paid to much for said item they're trying to now sell. Maybe they're bitter with themselves for overpaying and take it out on people bringing up comps....idk...everyone perception is a little different with each situation and card. It's best to just have fun and not let any of this stuff bother you. It's just a card and a super awesome fun event. Just having fun and walking around talking to people/the experience is what makes it enjoyable to me.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I am not so sure why so many people have problems with potential buyers bringing up comps? Sure there are cards that sells so infrequently that comps are useless. But for more commonly sold or traded issues, comps are quite valuable. They are certainly a good starting point for negotiation. Many dealers prices are detached from reality, especially at the national. I have no problem with someone showing me proof that my prices are out of line.

The problem is that comps are using actual data and facts and when properly used are rooted in reality, which many people in this hobby really hate. Especially if facts are used in a way not advantageous to the agenda of the seller. Buyers who are uneducated or who come to believe it is somehow rude to access public information in front of a seller to check the price, are much preferred and more likely to overpay. That comps can work out for the seller too, rarely seems to enter the equation because the goal is to sell over market, not to sell around market.