1971 Thurman Munson Topps SGC 7.5 - ANOTHER DROP

[JimmyC]

Hello Howard - here are some excerpts from your messages to me…

(1)

Hi Jim,

Phone call would be no different than our messaging. If no one here can vouch for you I would either want to do goods and services or pass on the card.
The only other option I would agree to is if you want to send me the card first and I will pay you friends and family on receipt. I am a Net 54 member since 2009 - plenty of references available including Leon. I also have an Ebay store since 1998.

YOU NEVER REACHED OUT TO THE THREE REFERENCES I GAVE YOU - you had already changed your mind and wouldn’t own up to the decision..you had no interest in talking to the three references I sent…

(2)

Not that your incorrect guess nor your inference about "people like me" deserve a response...... I checked your "references" prior to responding that I was moving on - a link to a 16 year old SCD article and 11 year old REA auction lot didn't cut it for me. Too much bs from guys " like you" in the hobby. If I don't know you and can't get comfortable with who you are, I'm not effectively handing you cash! If you don't get that, I suspect you will not be on the board very long.

I GAVE YOU REFERENCES OUT HERE THAT YOU WERE TOO LAZY TO FOLLOW UP ON - I sent you my background on GUU which is impeccable - I sent you an auction listing at REA which is one of many where they had my item and MY COA - I sent you my feedback on eBay - 2,244 positive 100% responses - I sent you my company’s web page and my profile so you could see who I am…

You changed your mind on the deal - you lied to me - you had no interest in following up after YOU committed to buy the card under my terms in the Listing - I don’t care how long you have been in business - you treated me like a child - changed your mind and lied ……and I do not like liars…..

[JimmyC]

“Too much BS from guys like me in the hobby”?

You should be damn lucky I am in the hobby - I have saved people tens of thousands of dollars over the years - literally tens of thousands of dollars by not making mistakes in the game used arena…

[SyrNy1960]

As James stated, both are stand-up guys. I hate to see this happen.” I agree!

Jim clearly stated: shipped and insured PPFF or Venmo.

Howard clearly stated: I'll take the 71 Munson at $625.

Unless there was a conversation that took place that we aren’t aware, at this point, the deal is done. Howard had the opportunity to ask questions, ask for references, do any research, and work out any issues before committing.

I believe most would agree. Of course, when things take a turn in a different direction, frustration kicks in.

I agree with Rand1com, “I would have just eaten the $21 PPGS fee and called it a day.”

[JimmyC]

Oh - and Howard - the only thing that was edited recently was I added net to me after $625 - the original posting with the pricing saying net to me via PPFF or Venmo with the original pricing was original - that would still apply with a price reduction - so if you are trying that angle, you have lost…

[JimmyC]

Howard - so sad…..you just don’t get it - everything you posted backs up what I have been saying……so sad…and PPFF was in the original listing

[JimmyC]

Tarnishing your reputation? Seriously??

You were done with this deal 7 hours after I saw the post that you wanted to buy and I contacted you - you never messaged me at all - didn’t know until I saw your response in the thread - you were confrontational from my first message to you saying basically, who are you selling this card??

You questioned me from the get go - I sent you so much information to get you comfortable and you were too damn lazy to do any research….PERIOD

I made my posts because there is a stigma when a card is back up for sale, especially if a dealer has backed out….

Sorry if you don’t like the facts….but it is what it is….

[SyrNy1960]

In the future, it might be a good idea to ask NET54 members if a NET54 seller is good to go. A lot of guys here know each other. I know Jim from GUU and would have vouched for him.

Honestly, I hate to see these things happen. So preventable from two seasoned collectors.

Shakes hands and don’t let this get too out of hand.

[JimmyC]

All Howard had to was ask around…..check the references I sent…..check my feedback history….look at my posts ( and yes, I do send an xtra card of a HoFer out on every auction to the winner )….see all my items for sale ….see the ones that had sold…..

Pretty simple stuff….

He wasn’t willing to look at anything and came up with excuses on GUU and SCD…

If he really wanted the card he would have dug in….like most of us would…how about offering to pay the fees if you buy PP via services and goods?

He changed his mind - plain and simple….

[hcv123]

Here is the entire PM exchange word for word :

Jim: “Hi Howard - she’s yours! You can PayPal me family and friends at jimcaravello23@gmail.com - I can drop her off tomorrow ! Thanks! Jim”

My scammer radar went off when I saw the request for FF payment – I can’t say for certain if it was or wasn’t there, but I have no recollection of seeing “net to me” in the post (which happens to have been edited at 12:09 AM last night)

Me: “ Hi Jim,

As I do not know you and you are relatively new to Net 54 (he joined in July of 2022), I would either want to send goods and services or get some "vouches" for you here - have you bought or sold with other Net 54 members? Does Leon know you? Thanks.

Howard”

Jim: “Hi Howard - I am bronxbats on eBay - you can check my feedback out there - I have corresponded with Leon, but I don’t know him personally - I’ve bought and sold out here quite a bit with no issues….I am a former Bat expert to Game Used Universe back in the day - my reputation is impeccable….I do need $625 net on this card so it needs to be PPFF or Venmo, whatever is best for you….

I sold a seaver rookie to Elberson and a Boggs bat to saltbox68 out here - they paid via PPFF….

Don’t know how else to get you comfortable, but I don’t screw around…..

Thanks, Jim Caravello”

NOTE: Not sure how, but I didn’t see the above message till going through them just now.

Jim: “More than happy to jump on a phone call tomorrow if that would make you more comfortable…..

Thanks, Jim”

Jim: “Also have done a couple deals with “Bliggity” - Dan Blau - he is here in Raleigh and we have met twice - great guy - you can always reach out to him for a reference…..”

Note: At this point what I saw provided was an offer for a phone call and the reference to “Bliggity” which I looked up and saw started 2 threads in all of 2023. I don’t know Dan.

Me: “Hi Jim,

Phone call would be no different than our messaging. If no one here can vouch for you I would either want to do goods and services or pass on the card.
The only other option I would agree to is if you want to send me the card first and I will pay you friends and family on receipt. I am a Net 54 member since 2009 - plenty of references available including Leon. I also have an Ebay store since 1998.

Let me know.

Howard”

Jim: Well - I have given you three references - please feel free to reach out to them….I do not send cards or any memorabilia until I get paid….
A couple of links for you…..

https://sportscollectorsdigest.com/a...art-revolution

https://robertedwardauctions.com/auc...-pro-model-bat

One of my COAs in the link above…



https://eyccompanies.com/our-team/jim/”

For those who do not care to look, the links are to a 16 year old SCD article, an 11 year old REA auction lot, and what appears to be a “bio” page on the internet.

Jim: “Did you even check references out here?”

Me: “Hi Jim,

Thanks for the effort. I'm not comfortable. Wish you the best with your sales.

Howard”


Now he gets really offensive:

Jim: “My guess is you had a buyer for the card and they backed out - do not ever contact me again about buying a card or anything out there - life is too short to deal with people like you…”

Me: Not that your incorrect guess nor your inference about "people like me" deserve a response...... I checked your "references" prior to responding that I was moving on - a link to a 16 year old SCD article and 11 year old REA auction lot didn't cut it for me. Too much bs from guys " like you" in the hobby. If I don't know you and can't get comfortable with who you are, I'm not effectively handing you cash! If you don't get that, I suspect you will not be on the board very long.
As for your guess - it's laughable, I'm not some 20 something flipper - I'm in the hobby over 30 years and will gladly match my reputation to yours whenever and wherever. I've done hundreds of thousands of dollars in business buying and selling in just the last few years with hundreds of people. I don't play the "sell it before I buy it game" with $600 cards.

Anyway - Happy to be on your " no contact" list as you'll be on mine as we agree on one thing - Life IS too short to deal with people like you.

Howard

Jim: “Great - we have something in common….no contact - get a life man…”


Might things have turned out differently if I saw the message I missed Saturday night - I don't know - I own that.

Where things went after that - I'm done.

I guess "no contact" to you doesn't include a public effort to tarnish my reputation. This is the only post I will make about the issue.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by hcv123

Here is the entire PM exchange word for word :

Jim: “Hi Howard - she’s yours! You can PayPal me family and friends at jimcaravello23@gmail.com - I can drop her off tomorrow ! Thanks! Jim”

My scammer radar went off when I saw the request for FF payment – I can’t say for certain if it was or wasn’t there, but I have no recollection of seeing “net to me” in the post (which happens to have been edited at 12:09 AM last night)

Me: “ Hi Jim,

As I do not know you and you are relatively new to Net 54 (he joined in July of 2022), I would either want to send goods and services or get some "vouches" for you here - have you bought or sold with other Net 54 members? Does Leon know you? Thanks.

Howard”

Jim: “Hi Howard - I am bronxbats on eBay - you can check my feedback out there - I have corresponded with Leon, but I don’t know him personally - I’ve bought and sold out here quite a bit with no issues….I am a former Bat expert to Game Used Universe back in the day - my reputation is impeccable….I do need $625 net on this card so it needs to be PPFF or Venmo, whatever is best for you….

I sold a seaver rookie to Elberson and a Boggs bat to saltbox68 out here - they paid via PPFF….

Don’t know how else to get you comfortable, but I don’t screw around…..

Thanks, Jim Caravello”

NOTE: Not sure how, but I didn’t see the above message till going through them just now.

Jim: “More than happy to jump on a phone call tomorrow if that would make you more comfortable…..

Thanks, Jim”

Jim: “Also have done a couple deals with “Bliggity” - Dan Blau - he is here in Raleigh and we have met twice - great guy - you can always reach out to him for a reference…..”
At this point what I saw provided was an offer for a phone call and the reference to “Bliggity” which I looked up and saw started 2 threads in all of 2023. I don’t know Dan.

Me: “Hi Jim,

Phone call would be no different than our messaging. If no one here can vouch for you I would either want to do goods and services or pass on the card.
The only other option I would agree to is if you want to send me the card first and I will pay you friends and family on receipt. I am a Net 54 member since 2009 - plenty of references available including Leon. I also have an Ebay store since 1998.

Let me know.

Howard”
Jim: Well - I have given you three references - please feel free to reach out to them….I do not send cards or any memorabilia until I get paid….
A couple of links for you…..

https://sportscollectorsdigest.com/a...art-revolution

https://robertedwardauctions.com/auc...-pro-model-bat

One of my COAs in the link above…



https://eyccompanies.com/our-team/jim/”

For those who do not care to look, the links are to a 16 year old SCD article, an 11 year old REA auction lot, and what appears to be a “bio” page on the internet.

Jim: “Did you even check references out here?”

Me: “Hi Jim,

Thanks for the effort. I'm not comfortable. Wish you the best with your sales.

Howard”


Now he gets really offensive:

Jim: “My guess is you had a buyer for the card and they backed out - do not ever contact me again about buying a card or anything out there - life is too short to deal with people like you…”

Me: Not that your incorrect guess nor your inference about "people like me" deserve a response...... I checked your "references" prior to responding that I was moving on - a link to a 16 year old SCD article and 11 year old REA auction lot didn't cut it for me. Too much bs from guys " like you" in the hobby. If I don't know you and can't get comfortable with who you are, I'm not effectively handing you cash! If you don't get that, I suspect you will not be on the board very long.
As for your guess - it's laughable, I'm not some 20 something flipper - I'm in the hobby over 30 years and will gladly match my reputation to yours whenever and wherever. I've done hundreds of thousands of dollars in business buying and selling in just the last few years with hundreds of people. I don't play the "sell it before I buy it game" with $600 cards.

Anyway - Happy to be on your " no contact" list as you'll be on mine as we agree on one thing - Life IS too short to deal with people like you.

Howard

Jim: “Great - we have something in common….no contact - get a life man…”


Might things have turned out differently if I saw the message I missed Saturday night - I don't know - I own that.

Where things went after that - I'm done.

I guess "no contact" to you doesn't include a public effort to tarnish my reputation. This is the only post I will make about the issue.

Howard:

I trust Jim. He and I have several mutual friends, going back years. I will be happy to pay Jim the money ($625) for you and then he can ship the card to you. You can pay me on receipt of the card.

Your refusal of this offer would certainly look like reneging, as your other excuses would be non-applicable. I'll take the "risk" because as I see it, there is none.

[JimmyC]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Howard:

I trust Jim. He and I have several mutual friends, going back years. I will be happy to pay Jim the money ($625) for you and then he can ship the card to you. You can pay me on receipt of the card.

Your refusal of this offer would certainly look like reneging, as your other excuses would be non-applicable. I'll take the "risk" because as I see it, there is none.

Thank you Mark…

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by JimmyC

Thank you Mark…

No problem Jim. Of course I didn't expect Howard to accept my offer. Just wanted to make it crystal clear for everybody viewing these threads that he reneged on the deal, plain and simple.

What pissed me off and caused me to interject myself into it is that Howard couldn't just be stand-up and admit he changed his mind; instead he tried to imply you were somehow untrustworthy. That, to me, is really sleazy. If a guy is going to back out of a deal, don't throw lame excuses, trying to make the other guy look bad. Just man up and be honest.

[JimmyC]

Thanks again Mark…..appreciate your feedback…..

Gotta love this:

For those who do not care to look, the links are to a 16 year old SCD article, an 11 year old REA auction lot, and what appears to be a “bio” page on the internet.

Maybe a guy that has been around a while and provides COAs to REA, has written articles in SCD and sends you his current company’s website with his full background and history might be a legit guy? Just sayin….

Oh - and this is rich….


Note: At this point what I saw provided was an offer for a phone call and the reference to “Bliggity” which I looked up and saw started 2 threads in all of 2023. I don’t know Dan.

LOL - you may not know any of the references I provided you out here, but reach out to them and inquire! Dan is like one of the nicest collectors I have met! Right here in my home town….not everyone is out here daily and posting daily! What a lame excuse!! “Only posted twice in 2023”…..He has bought from me twice with no issue! I am still laughing at your rebuttals…..comical…..so basically, if Howard doesn’t know my references provided, then I am probably not a legit seller….

Sorry I am not letting this go - this entire situation has just rubbed me the wrong way………I am tired of people who won’t stand up and accept responsibility for their actions…

As I said in an earlier post, all you had to do was say you changed your mind…..and we wouldn’t be here right now…..but you couldn’t man up…

You made a post in this thread to buy with terms clearly stated - $625 via PPFF or Venmo and you RENEGED….plain and simple…

Lame excuses listed above and trying to deflect responsibility to my side of this just make me furious….

As my parents taught me when I was younger …….take accountability for what you say / do / and commit to…….