The Card Altering Services Saga Continues

[nwobhm]

I’m imagining a TPG that doesn’t give a # but instead gives real usable information:

Corners = 90°
Length = 3.52”
Width = 2.51”
Authentic = Yes
Centering = 55/45
Color Added = No
Moisture Content = 5%

That would surely clear out a lot of trimmed, soaked & colored cards.

[steve B]

Lots to get into here.

The idea that many of our collectibles have an expiration date of sorts is very accurate. Anything printed on wood fiber based paper will eventually become too brittle to handle from the acid breaking down the fibers.

There are already "standards" for paper conservation. Followed by most conservators and archives.

A few of our cards may be doomed altogether. Many of my Collectors edge cards have already yellowed noticeably, and they're "only" 30 years old. (Damn I'm getting old)


Taking a stance based on what's done in other hobbies might be good. None will really work in all cases.

Paintings are an interesting example. The valuable ones are often cleaned and a professional has a lengthy process, removing old varnish and accumulated filth, carefully painting in areas where the original paint has been lost, and revarnishing with one that won't yellow - or won't yellow as quickly.
What's rarely mentioned is that the professional does all those things with methods that don't cause further damage, and with materials that can be removed. So the restoration is entirely reversible.

Most silver coins you see that are shiny have been cleaned, not with abrasives like a pencil eraser or toothpaste..., but with a fluid tarnish remover. A couple things some may find interesting
The tarnish can be partly removed is it's really bad. This takes some skill and attention. It may also in extreme cases be difficult to fully remove. (I did it a few times for a dealer whose shop I hung out at, in trade for stamps and coins. I also did a couple of my own, one rare but so covered in crud you almost couldn't tell. It only came back to an average level of tarnish, and since it only is G-VG or so, would be inpropper to go further. )

Many of the wonderfuly "toned" (creatively tarnished) silver coins were never that way until recently. Putting a cleaned coin in the right envelope maybe with some of the right chemicals generates a beautiful rainbow tarnish that's considered very desirable. from the time I started collecting coins as a kid until the 90's when I sort of stopped I saw maybe two coins with that toning.
Now they're somewhat common.


I think we all draw the line at different places, I'm ok with light surface cleaning, and would be ok with deacidification on most cards from roughly the 1920's to 1991.
Removing creases? No. I'm sure it can be done, and perhaps done permanently. But it's just going too far. I very much doubt that surface wrinkles and creases can be caused by humidity changes. Out of tens of thousands of cards I have between the 1880's and last year, subject to regualr seasonal humidity changes, you'd think at least one would have had that happen. Nope.

Pushing a corner back down?
Not sure what is meant.
A completely bent corner getting flattened a bit? Ok, if it creased, it should be detectable anyway.
Using a roller to hide that it ever happened? No.

Same for a corner where it's become layered and one layer has gotten folded over.

But as we've seen, PSA themselves will just fold it back and reslab... leaving it with even a high grade. Not something I agree with in any way.


I really don't like hearing people day it's ok or that nobody cares anymore and we should all just get on the altering bandwagon.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by nwobhm

I’m imagining a TPG that doesn’t give a # but instead gives real usable information:

Corners = 90°
Length = 3.52”
Width = 2.51”
Authentic = Yes
Centering = 55/45
Color Added = No
Moisture Content = 5%

That would surely clear out a lot of trimmed, soaked & colored cards.

I'm with you here. Would be great if creases, wrinkles, tears, paper loss, etc. were all noted as well. Although moisture content wouldn't tell you anything about whether a card has been soaked before or not, it'll just tell you the relative humidity of where it was/is stored, as cards dry out very fast. But every card should come with the grading report viewable online when you look up the cert number. I believe TAG grading does this.

[Peter_Spaeth]

There is no question that alteration is and always has been a spectrum, and different people draw the line in different places. I think, like it or not, Travis is right that as an overall matter, that line has moved to a more tolerant place as cards increasingly get commoditized and a new generation has a different outlook.

[ALBB]

Yea, I agree....if a guy has a card with a corner bent over. Who wouldn't bend it back over

I dont think thats altering a card

[packs]

When I open modern cards I take a microfiber brush to them if there are spots in the gloss. Why not? I don't really consider that altering the card. Especially if all I did was wipe it with something.

I'd draw the line at trimming, erasing marks, re-backing, ironing out creases, etc.

But I do think we would all take advantage of what we can do almost naturally if the opportunity presented itself. Soaking a card for example.

[Rhotchkiss]

This is the back of a Rose Company post card I own. That is double sided tape used to affix the post card to an album; there is paper from the album stuck to the outward side of the tape. I see no reason why I should not be able to remove the tape; that is, I don’t think removing the tape should be considered an alteration. However, I will not remove it bc it’s a rare card and if I tried to slab it after removal, the card may come back an A (it has a numerical grade)

I don’t have an issue with the removal of foreign objects, including cleaning a card, and flipping a corner back is not only acceptable to me, it so obviously fundamental that I don’t know how there is debate on that. Spooning, pressing, or steaming out a crease is, to me, an alteration, although it’s really only one step away from flipping a corner….

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

This is the back of a Rose Company post card I own. That is double sided tape used to affix the post card to an album; there is paper from the album stuck to the outward side of the tape. I see no reason why I should not be able to remove the tape; that is, I don’t think removing the tape should be considered an alteration. However, I will not remove it bc it’s a rare card and if I tried to slab it after removal, the card may come back an A (it has a numerical grade)

I don’t have an issue with the removal of foreign objects, including cleaning a card, and flipping a corner back is not only acceptable to me, it so obviously fundamental that I don’t know how there is debate on that. Spooning, pressing, or steaming out a crease is, to me, an alteration, although it’s really only one step away from flipping a corner….

If you can remove it mechanically I would think you should be OK, if you start using chemicals that may have an unknown future impact on the stock I would be against that.