The Card Altering Services Saga Continues

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by bmattioli

Comic Books are cleaned and pressed all the time.. then submitted..

Not meaning to be rude, is an old argument and used constantly. They are, but it’s half the story. Conserved comics are labeled as such if the grader can locate it, it is not an “allowed” practice for a straight grade.

https://www.cgccomics.com/grading/gr...le=restoration

Every grading company for cards has a grade for that too…authentic or altered authentic. No big difference.

The comic book argument holds no water.

[JustinD]

Same for cgcs numismatic services. A cleaned coin is worth a fraction of an uncleaned one.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Not meaning to be rude, is an old argument and used constantly. They are, but it’s half the story. Conserved comics are labeled as such if the grader can locate it, it is not an “allowed” practice for a straight grade.

https://www.cgccomics.com/grading/gr...le=restoration

Every grading company for cards has a grade for that too…authentic or altered authentic. No big difference.

The comic book argument holds no water.

I dislike the practice of cleaning and pressing comics. However, CGC allows you to submit books for cleaning, pressing, and grading. If the comic was deemed unaltered before CGC gets it, it won’t get an “altered” designation when cleaned, pressed, graded and encapsulated.

I don’t agree with or understand it….but that’s the world of comic grading.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Not meaning to be rude, is an old argument and used constantly. They are, but it’s half the story. Conserved comics are labeled as such if the grader can locate it, it is not an “allowed” practice for a straight grade.

https://www.cgccomics.com/grading/gr...le=restoration

Every grading company for cards has a grade for that too…authentic or altered authentic. No big difference.

The comic book argument holds no water.

Cleaning and pressing is NOT considered alteration/conservation in comics and CGC actually offers the service themselves.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Cleaning and pressing is NOT considered alteration/conservation in comics and CGC actually offers the service themselves.

True, pressing is allowed.

However, it really only is because CGC threw up their hands at the advent of it in the early 2000s. Due to the reason they admitted they could not detect it well enough to identify in the beginning and gave up. Then they saw a profit to be made on the back end about 15 years ago and started the side hustle.

I do not collect comics, but have many friends in the hobby that are old school and disagree with that decision. They will only collect ungraded copies or for the important issues "Old label" CGC that were pre-04 as they are believed to be less apt to pressing as it was not widely used outside the insider alterers prior.

Personally I think graded comics is sillier than cards as it renders the comic useless for it's intended purpose. I collected in the 80s and early 90s as a younger man and can't see not reading my comics. Different strokes for different folks.

Cleaning is a personal choice and many use it in both hobbies. I think it's shady even with the polishing that people use on shiny cards, the limit for me would be a dry wipe, not any compounds or solvents. However, that's not realistic and I will just go on knowing that others will do what they do. I'm not hating them for it, I just disagree and will not participate. What the grading services either miss or allow still does not change the definition...altering can be looked up in a dictionary. The line just changes based on money and the bottom line.

My favorite shady thing about CGC is that they figured out a way to make cash both coming and going. They will press and restore your book but also offer an restoration removal service, lol. If that's not something to think about...

[BeanTown]

Just got this in my package from a rare eBay purchase. Couldn’t fraudulent sellers purposely mis categorize their listing to avoid the authentication process.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Just got this in my package from a rare eBay purchase. Couldn’t fraudulent sellers purposely mis categorize their listing to avoid the authentication process.

It's become a fairly common practice already for the scammers, these things just take them a few months to figure out. Keywords in the listing titles cull it out easily - "set", "pack", "box", or "lot" are examples. You can see that issue as people commonly used "set break", "base set", or "pack fresh", they were kicked out of the program. They supposedly fixed that recently if the phrase "set break" is used, but not sure. "Set" will still kick it on it's own.

No lots, sets, or unopened packs/boxes are in the program, so many scammers will sell a fake Ruth with some trash like a free 1983 Topps common to slide it under the lot category and get the fake to the buyer.

I would feel bad about posting this info, but they all know this already. The site is full of them.

You must look for the blue check and eBay statement (not seller statement) that it is 'Authenticity Guaranteed" to trust it is in the program.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by JustinD

It's become a fairly common practice already for the scammers, these things just take them a few months to figure out. Keywords in the listing titles cull it out easily - "set", "pack", "box", or "lot" are examples. You can see that issue as people commonly used "set break", "base set", or "pack fresh", they were kicked out of the program. They supposedly fixed that recently if the phrase "set break" is used, but not sure. "Set" will still kick it on it's own.

No lots, sets, or unopened packs/boxes are in the program, so many scammers will sell a fake Ruth with some trash like a free 1983 Topps common to slide it under the lot category and get the fake to the buyer.

I would feel bad about posting this info, but they all know this already. The site is full of them.

You must look for the blue check and eBay statement (not seller statement) that it is 'Authenticity Guaranteed" to trust it is in the program.

For every program that comes out that guarantee's the authenticity of something, there will be a person or people that find a way around it. Even the grading companies are not infallible, fakes have been slabbed before whether they be cards or autographs. The most important thing we can do is educate ourselves on what we are buying, and ask people that are experienced in certain areas for their opinion and knowledge.

Back to the topic at hand. I have purchased cards that were slabbed altered before. If you want to alter a card, that is your prerogative, it shouldn't get judged by the same standards a non altered card does. The inherent problem is the grading companies IMO. Alteration has been around for quite some time, but collectors treating the grade like it is gospel, are an issue, which I feel like that is what a portion of the higher end hobby has become. And if that grade is influenced by some sort of altering of the card, yet still receives a number grade, I have an issue with that.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Seven

Back to the topic at hand. I have purchased cards that were slabbed altered before. If you want to alter a card, that is your prerogative, it shouldn't get judged by the same standards a non altered card does. The inherent problem is the grading companies IMO. Alteration has been around for quite some time, but collectors treating the grade like it is gospel, are an issue, which I feel like that is what a portion of the higher end hobby has become. And if that grade is influenced by some sort of altering of the card, yet still receives a number grade, I have an issue with that.

Beautiful statement, I have several slabbed altered cards as well. I don't mind a bit to get a card at a discount that is a nice display but clearly designated. I also don't mind the savings I get for that purchase, it's all an honest transaction.

I would never remove those cards from the slabs to avoid fraud, nor play the submitting game until someone missed it. A do not want a numerical grade for them in the least, they are altered and the clarity to me is just dandy. Sometimes we shop within our budget and I don't mind having a better looking card that is scarlet lettered. That "A" isn't going to kill me, and I know when I sell there will not be bad karma or an angry buyer down the road who feels misled.