The Card Altering Services Saga Continues

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Perhaps I'm missing something. Where is he altering cards? All I see is a guy taking cards with bent up corners and pushing them back down, sticking cards in a humidor and then letting them dry them flat, and gently cleaning smudges off the surfaces of cards.

If any of these actions I mentioned qualify as "altering" a card to you (resulting in it not being grade worthy), then you might as well just throw in the towel on collecting cards altogether. Because 99% of collectors who have raw cards with bent up corners are going to try to push those back down. And sticking a card in a humidor is no different from shipping one from Vegas to New Orleans in the summer.

This has also kicked around my head for a while. At the end of the day, we all draw our own line in a different place. I do think that purists are going to have to soften in their stance or get out all together, because I see a wave of “card preservation” normalization is coming.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by conor912

This has also kicked around my head for a while. At the end of the day, we all draw our own line in a different place. I do think that purists are going to have to soften in their stance or get out all together, because I see a wave of “card preservation” normalization is coming.

We are the only paper-based collectible hobby that does not conserve items. This is a 200 year old print:



This is a 100 year old print:



The 200 year old cotton-rag print has a better chance of making 300 than the 100 year old wood pulp print has to make 200. I am not against properly performed efforts to conserve the paper. More and more of our cardboard is going to rot away due to acid from the wood pulp paper. The chemical reaction can be halted and some of the damage reversed with proper conservation techniques. If we do nothing we allow the history of the hobby to rot away.

[nwobhm]

Originally Posted by exhibitman

we are the only paper-based collectible hobby that does not conserve items. The 200 year old cotton-rag print has a better chance of making 300 than the 100 year old wood pulp print has to make 200. I am not against properly performed efforts to conserve the paper. More and more of our cardboard is going to rot away due to acid from the wood pulp paper. The chemical reaction can be halted and some of the damage reversed with proper conservation techniques. If we do nothing we allow the history of the hobby to rot away.

bullseye !!!

[Peter_Spaeth]

I love the black gloves.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

We are the only paper-based collectible hobby that does not conserve items. This is a 200 year old print:



This is a 100 year old print:



The 200 year old cotton-rag print has a better chance of making 300 than the 100 year old wood pulp print has to make 200. I am not against properly performed efforts to conserve the paper. More and more of our cardboard is going to rot away due to acid from the wood pulp paper. The chemical reaction can be halted and some of the damage reversed with proper conservation techniques. If we do nothing we allow the history of the hobby to rot away.

This is not what Evan Mathis and the rest of the parasites are doing though.

You want standards of conservation? Then have a governing body establish them and hold people to those standards. I'm 100% okay with a standardized fair playing field but these folks are just scunbags trying to take advantage. Complete transparency on the label, "was graded a 2 in 1998, has since been "restored" by knucklehead #1 in 2005, knucklehead #2 in 2023, and here's your product. What'll you give me for it?

I've said it before, the most valuable T and E cards should be the ones with fat borders that show 100+ years of wear on them.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The only thing those fat bordered E cards are good for is making smaller higher grade ones. We started seeing E cards that fit into T holders here a decade and a half ago and of course most people oohed and aahed. It's an art form.

[2dueces]

I collect paintings and conservation is considered a good thing.
Rebacking seldom hurts the value and a good conservator adding paint
Rarely affects the value. Prints that have cardboard receive acid free backing to
prevent foxing. But spoon a corner or soak a card is considered altering and bad?

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by 2dueces

I collect paintings and conservation is considered a good thing.
Rebacking seldom hurts the value and a good conservator adding paint
Rarely affects the value. Prints that have cardboard receive acid free backing to
Stop foxing. But spoon a corner or soak a card it considered altering and bad?

I collect paintings too, and all those things are disclosed in the item description. PSA Goudey Ruth with thin borders? Not a peep about the "restoration" that's been done.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Paintings are unique items. The restoration is done to preserve them for posterity. Cards are altered to deceive, period. To artificially differentiate them from other examples of the same card. There is no analogy here.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by conor912

This has also kicked around my head for a while. At the end of the day, we all draw our own line in a different place. I do think that purists are going to have to soften in their stance or get out all together, because I see a wave of “card preservation” normalization is coming.

The purists can maintain whatever drawn line they wish to stand behind, but the rest of the hobby doesn't owe it to them to entertain or appease their demands. If I push down a lifted corner with my finger, I'm not going to put a sticky note on my card to remind me of that fact for when I go to sell it in the future. Sorry, not sorry. Everyone flattens down a bent corner. If someone finds that problematic, then they can just go find another hobby, because everyone is doing it and no one is disclosing it because there's nothing to disclose. And every TPG would give that card a numeric grade.

Just look at the comments on that TikTok video linked to in the OP. The comments/likes are about 1000 to 1 in favor of what Kurtscardcare is doing in the video as being completely acceptable. If you take issue with what he is doing, then you are *vastly* outnumbered.

IMO, as long as you are not removing card stock or adding something to the card, then you are not altering it.