Dealers' Pricing at the National

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Makes you question why they'd spend all that time and money to set up at the show. I know I wouldn't, especially if my table space wasn't proximally conducive to walk-ins looking to sell.

It's so popular nobody goes anymore...

Dealers who had booths last year got shut out this year, so apparently someone is selling something to someone at a good enough rate that others want in on the action and can't get it.

I will also say if I had been shopping last year at AC I found literally dozens of items that were priced reasonable. I like odd things so maybe that was part of it, but I like OLD odd things and there were definitely reasonable prices on stuff I thought was cool.

[Tyruscobb]

The best deals are not at the national. They are in the few weeks before the national from those going to it. Attendees, seeking to raise capital to purchase their white whales at the national, usually are more willing to move existing cards and negotiate. My haul will come from them; not the overpriced national.

[brass_rat]

An article from SCD, November 1979.

[bbcard1]

I have found the national to be a great place to go to reconnect and make friends, a bad place to buy cards. The only real buys I have gotten were when I took the time to dig through massive quarter bins, but that's really not what you go to the National for. TBH, I haven't found all that much luck looking for the obscure things on my checklist either. I have been looking for a Jacksonville Jaguars team issue of Chris Parker for years without a sniff of luck.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

I have found the national to be a great place to go to reconnect and make friends, a bad place to buy cards. The only real buys I have gotten were when I took the time to dig through massive quarter bins, but that's really not what you go to the National for.

Well, what the heck else is it for? I've pulled some amazing stuff over the years because I roll up my sleeves and go at it. I get to the show when it opens, stay to the close every day, and spend the whole day each day sifting through stuff until the holder cuts on my fingers need bandaging (and I have bandages and tape in my bag so i can clean up and go right back to it). Then again, I am a picker by nature. The thing I love most about collecting is the pick, spotting the gold in the scrap pile. Reminds me of finding boxes of cards at junk shops or receiving boxes of cards from family friends who were throwing their kids' cards away, like when I was a kid. Sometimes it can seem pretty ridiculous that I sit around sifting through ‘junk’, but it pays off, like the time I was going through a $0.10 box at the National. I got some crap for that from fellow collectors passing by, but that was just fine by me because I was mining a run of high grade 1970s football and hockey in that box, and I was pulling a stack of $1-$50 cards out of there. I spent $10 in half an hour and walked away with hundreds of dollars in resale value. I will take that deal all day, every day, but that never happens if you turn up your nose and refuse to put in the work.

[ocjack]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Well, what the heck else is it for? I've pulled some amazing stuff over the years because I roll up my sleeves and go at it. I get to the show when it opens, stay to the close every day, and spend the whole day each day sifting through stuff until the holder cuts on my fingers need bandaging (and I have bandages and tape in my bag so i can clean up and go right back to it). Then again, I am a picker by nature. The thing I love most about collecting is the pick, spotting the gold in the scrap pile. Reminds me of finding boxes of cards at junk shops or receiving boxes of cards from family friends who were throwing their kids' cards away, like when I was a kid. Sometimes it can seem pretty ridiculous that I sit around sifting through ‘junk’, but it pays off, like the time I was going through a $0.10 box at the National. I got some crap for that from fellow collectors passing by, but that was just fine by me because I was mining a run of high grade 1970s football and hockey in that box, and I was pulling a stack of $1-$50 cards out of there. I spent $10 in half an hour and walked away with hundreds of dollars in resale value. I will take that deal all day, every day, but that never happens if you turn up your nose and refuse to put in the work.

I agree with Adam. I spent years attending and setting up at shows. I would walk around looking for cards on my want list, but I would always go through the dealers 1957 Topps commons. My time was rewarded by finding two Bakep error cards and paying pennies because the dealer classified them as commons. Not every dealer is aware of every possible card of value and if you have the time and the patience, you can take advantage of their lack of knowledge or maybe on a kinder note, their laziness in determing what they really had. And as a side-note as to the scarcity of the Bakep card - probably 15 years of shows and only found 2.

[CardsMax]

Part of what I love about net54 is that it's is own bubble and completely sheltered from the non-vintage hobby, but concurrently expects the pricing of 5 years ago.

Do buyers ever think about where an item is sourced from? If not from private collection buys--which are more infrequent now more than ever--it's from online, or more specifically, an auction house.

Modern cards sell below comps because people fundamentally do not want them. It's all buying and selling and it's commonly accepted that there will always be someone selling the same card cheaper. This is simply not the case for most vintage, especially examples that scarcely come to market.

It's all on perspective. I agree most vintage "dealers" are way more out of touch, but ultimately the remark of "what I'm into it for" stands true. They're the one sourcing absolutely everything, and on items where they have the leverage to sell high, they're going to maximize their dollar both out of their own self interest and that it cost them a pretty penny in the first place (nobody is selling Mantle's at 85% of their going rate).

If a dealer is paying top dollar at an auction house, why should you be entitled to it for less? By that same token, net54 forum readers are some of the most passionate about vintage and collecting and general, and are often putting in the same amount of time digging for deals as "dealers." The ultimate buyers are people who invest less time in digging for deals themselves and are willing to get access for a high end card actually available for sale, even if its at a god forbid 10-15% premium.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by ocjack

I agree with Adam. I spent years attending and setting up at shows. I would walk around looking for cards on my want list, but I would always go through the dealers 1957 Topps commons. My time was rewarded by finding two Bakep error cards and paying pennies because the dealer classified them as commons. Not every dealer is aware of every possible card of value and if you have the time and the patience, you can take advantage of their lack of knowledge or maybe on a kinder note, their laziness in determing what they really had. And as a side-note as to the scarcity of the Bakep card - probably 15 years of shows and only found 2.

Lol, you just reminded me of one of the card show lessons I have taught my son and always seems to do me well (especially prior to the pandemic). If you see a dealer table with nothing but modern, take a look in their bulk card boxes. They likely have bought some older cards from a walk up or in a big collection and they likely have no clue on earth what they bought. I have grabbed many a gem from those tables for damn near pennies.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by brass_rat

An article from SCD, November 1979.

Great post Steve. So, even in the Good’ol days of yore, articles were written about prices and the hobby was about money with cards appreciating and dealers looking to get top prices.

Those who say that the hobby used to not be about money/flipping/investment are not telling the full story. I started collecting in 1982 and everyone had price guides, trades only happened if the values were relatively equal, everyone opened boxes looking for the rookies and chucked the commons, and price was a (if not) the primary consideration behind what someone bought or sold.

While much has changed in the “hobby”, it’s still largely the same.

[brass_rat]

Exactly. . Even hobby publications in the 1960s regularly commented on rapid price appreciation.

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Great post Steve. So, even in the Good’ol days of yore, articles were written about prices and the hobby was about money with cards appreciating and dealers looking to get top prices.

While much has changed in the “hobby”, it’s still largely the same.

[notfast]

Rare stuff will be priced high as it should be. It’s on the buyer and seller to work out something both are happy with, but it benefits both when there’s a starting price, even if it’s high.

Less rare stuff that is in demand will be all over the place, like every show.

[The Detroit Collector]

Old vintage has been overpriced for a while now. Last year I only walked away with one card at the national because of the prices.

That being said, you can find good deals. I did find an Old Judge Hugh Duffy at a good price. Its faded and in an old SCG slab, but still a great card non the less.

My advice would be to walk around and hit every table. Have a notebook and write down the cards that catch your eye and the price. After you did a walk of the floor, sit down somewhere and see what cards in your notebook seem to have the best deal.

Also, if you can wait, Sunday prices are more reasonable.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

It's so popular nobody goes anymore...

Dealers who had booths last year got shut out this year, so apparently someone is selling something to someone at a good enough rate that others want in on the action and can't get it.

I will also say if I had been shopping last year at AC I found literally dozens of items that were priced reasonable. I like odd things so maybe that was part of it, but I like OLD odd things and there were definitely reasonable prices on stuff I thought was cool.

Most of the dealers at the National are there to sell. I know I have been for the 12 Nationals I have previously set up at. Certainly, there are some museums there in which the dealers could care less if they sell anything or not but the vast majority are there to sell.

If you think you are going to find a T206 Green Border Cobb in a PSA 5 for a bargain price, then you are going to the wrong place.

However, deals will be had all over the room from the first row to the last on cards, autographs, and memorabilia. You just have to look, ask for pricing, and negotiate.