Jacob deGrom most Ks in first 200 games

[Peter_Spaeth]

Pretty sobering career stats if you really look at the body of work, and now he's on ice for one plus years. We're only captivated by him because we know how untouchable he is capable of being. But in this life you have to deliver on your talent. I'm ready to stick a fork in his HOF chances.

Hall of Fame Statistics
Black Ink
Pitching - 12 (244th), Average HOFer ≈ 40
Gray Ink
Pitching - 92 (310th), Average HOFer ≈ 185
Hall of Fame Monitor
Pitching - 51 (275th), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
Hall of Fame Standards
Pitching - 34 (118th), Average HOFer ≈ 50
JAWS
Starting Pitcher (113th):
44.6 career WAR | 39.8 7yr-peak WAR | 42.2 JAWS | 42.2 S-JAWS | 7.0 WAR/162
Average HOF P (out of 66):
73.0 career WAR | 49.9 7yr-peak WAR | 61.4 JAWS | 56.8 S-JAWS | 4.5 WAR/162

[Peter_Spaeth]

I haven't studied the stat lines, but he reminds me of Chris Sale, who is a really really good pitcher but can't seem to stay healthy.

[Jim65]

deGrom isn't a HOF and now will probably never be. When all is said and done, his career isn't better than other multiple Cy Young winners who have no chance at the HOF, like Johan Santana or Bret Saberhagen

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jim65

deGrom isn't a HOF and now will probably never be. When all is said and done, his career isn't better than other multiple Cy Young winners who have no chance at the HOF, like Johan Santana or Bret Saberhagen

Santana is a good analogy, he had a short peak where he was sublime.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Pretty sobering career stats if you really look at the body of work, and now he's on ice for one plus years. We're only captivated by him because we know how untouchable he is capable of being. But in this life you have to deliver on your talent. I'm ready to stick a fork in his HOF chances.

Hall of Fame Statistics
Black Ink
Pitching - 12 (244th), Average HOFer ≈ 40
Gray Ink
Pitching - 92 (310th), Average HOFer ≈ 185
Hall of Fame Monitor
Pitching - 51 (275th), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
Hall of Fame Standards
Pitching - 34 (118th), Average HOFer ≈ 50
JAWS
Starting Pitcher (113th):
44.6 career WAR | 39.8 7yr-peak WAR | 42.2 JAWS | 42.2 S-JAWS | 7.0 WAR/162
Average HOF P (out of 66):
73.0 career WAR | 49.9 7yr-peak WAR | 61.4 JAWS | 56.8 S-JAWS | 4.5 WAR/162

I didn't realize how bleak it looked, until you posted the numbers. Short of him pulling a Randy Johnson and winning a couple of more Cy Youngs in his late 30's, it's pretty much impossible for him to get to the Hall now. A damn shame, considering his talent. Put him up there in the "What if?" category with so many other talented ballplayers that succumbed to, too many injuries.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Seven

I didn't realize how bleak it looked, until you posted the numbers. Short of him pulling a Randy Johnson and winning a couple of more Cy Youngs in his late 30's, it's pretty much impossible for him to get to the Hall now. A damn shame, considering his talent. Put him up there in the "What if?" category with so many other talented ballplayers that succumbed to, too many injuries.

well said

Pleasure watching him when healthy but the best ability is availability and sadly like other potential greats he is not

[D. Bergin]

Article on "The Ringer" about Degrom. Author makes an interesting point about Degrom continuing to push up his velocity numbers, even as his injury history is mounting.

https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2023/6...gers-takeaways

I think that speaks to his mindset (or ego) as a pitcher. Instead of pacing himself and continuing to be available while giving up runs here and there, he treats every batter as if they're the last out in the bottom of the 9th of a 1 run game with the bases loaded.

That might be all hardcore and all, but there's a reason why Mariano Rivera, Aroldis Chapman, Dan Quissenberry and company, aren't starting pitchers. The human body is not made to pitch with that intensity for more then a couple innings at a time.

I say Degrom has no chance of making the HOF........unless.....a BIG unless...unless he comes back as a dominant stopper like an Eckersley, and has a long run in that role, well into his 40's.

[D. Bergin]

BTW, if you put up Mariano Rivera's lifetime stats, next to Jacob DeGrom's lifetime stats up to this point, it's fascinating how similar they are, considering their completely different roles in the game.

[packs]

Why do people continue to make assumptions about closers like Rivera? The reason Rivera became a closer is because he was elite.

You can't just become a closer because you didn't make an impact as a starter. There is a reason why there is only one Mariano Rivera and only two or three truly elite no doubt about it closers in the league at any given time. Even less with longevity.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by packs

Why do people continue to make assumptions about closers like Rivera? The reason Rivera became a closer is because he was elite.

You can't just become a closer because you didn't make an impact as a starter. There is a reason why there is only one Mariano Rivera and only two or three truly elite no doubt about it closers in the league at any given time. Even less with longevity.

What assumptions did I make about Rivera? I'm a Yanks fan and he's one of my all-time favorite players.

I was essentially saying, you can't pitch with the intensity of Degrom and stay healthy, unless you are doing it in the smaller sample sizes of a relief pitcher.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Article on "The Ringer" about Degrom. Author makes an interesting point about Degrom continuing to push up his velocity numbers, even as his injury history is mounting.

https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2023/6...gers-takeaways

I think that speaks to his mindset (or ego) as a pitcher. Instead of pacing himself and continuing to be available while giving up runs here and there, he treats every batter as if they're the last out in the bottom of the 9th of a 1 run game with the bases loaded.

That might be all hardcore and all, but there's a reason why Mariano Rivera, Aroldis Chapman, Dan Quissenberry and company, aren't starting pitchers. The human body is not made to pitch with that intensity for more then a couple innings at a time.

I say Degrom has no chance of making the HOF........unless.....a BIG unless...unless he comes back as a dominant stopper like an Eckersley, and has a long run in that role, well into he 40's.

Some interesting observations and very dead on points.

[G1911]

Johan - 2,025 IP
DeGrom - 1,325 IP

DeGrom is about to turn 35 and needs 700 innings to catch Johan, whose career was considered too short by the vast majority. That’s how brief DeGrom’s career is. He has never been close to the Hall.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by G1911

Johan - 2,025 IP
DeGrom - 1,325 IP

DeGrom is about to turn 35 and needs 700 innings to catch Johan, whose career was considered too short by the vast majority. That’s how brief DeGrom’s career is. He has never been close to the Hall.

As others have mentioned Lincecum is a good comparison, 3 years of lights out ball and gone.