Is having provenance or a pedigree on holder good

[Leon]

"Holder Schmolder" on that one. His stamp is on it... Us collectors know...

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I voted for it simply because there are pedigrees that matter. I know I have paid a little extra for something from a famous collector's collection.



I'd like to get the pedigree on the holder some day.

It's Burdick, in case you didn't know.

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[irv]

I also have one with no idea who Dan Fox is or was?
I did some research thinking I'd likely find something, but IIRC, I came up blank?

[G1911]

I can see how it might be cool for the Fords or Williams above, when it is from the players estate or similar and is a connection to the player. For a player collector, that makes some sense to me.

Another collector, I tend to find a little silly. I don't care who owned a card before I did and I can't understand why I should. I throw the slip away when I get these holders and the 'provenance' is destroyed. That Collector X, Y or Z owned Card 1 before I did doesn't impact card 1 at all, it is either authentic or not and is in the condition that it is in. It is not more or less because of which of us dorks owned it.

[clamendo]

Originally Posted by G1911

I can see how it might be cool for the Fords or Williams above, when it is from the players estate or similar and is a connection to the player. For a player collector, that makes some sense to me.

Another collector, I tend to find a little silly. I don't care who owned a card before I did and I can't understand why I should. I throw the slip away when I get these holders and the 'provenance' is destroyed. That Collector X, Y or Z owned Card 1 before I did doesn't impact card 1 at all, it is either authentic or not and is in the condition that it is in. It is not more or less because of which of us dorks owned it.

Some of these other old-time advanced collectors were putting high grade sets together 40-60 years ago. There wasn’t a lot of money being thrown around, so to get it from one of them (and you can prove it) means there’s less of a chance that it’s been altered. Even cards that are in holders have slipped through PSA, SGC and others. It’s always nice to get the cards from an original owner. With today’s technology they can slip through grading companies as has been mentioned numerous times on this forum.


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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by clamendo

Some of these other old-time advanced collectors were putting high grade sets together 40-60 years ago. There wasn’t a lot of money being thrown around, so to get it from one of them (and you can prove it) means there’s less of a chance that it’s been altered. Even cards that are in holders have slipped through PSA, SGC and others. It’s always nice to get the cards from an original owner. With today’s technology they can slip through grading companies as has been mentioned numerous times on this forum.


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The possible flaw I see in your logic is that you're assuming whoever acquired the collections and then submitted them didn't alter them. Do we really trust Doug Allen not to have touched any of Lionel Carter's cards, for example?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by clamendo

Some of these other old-time advanced collectors were putting high grade sets together 40-60 years ago. There wasn’t a lot of money being thrown around, so to get it from one of them (and you can prove it) means there’s less of a chance that it’s been altered. Even cards that are in holders have slipped through PSA, SGC and others. It’s always nice to get the cards from an original owner. With today’s technology they can slip through grading companies as has been mentioned numerous times on this forum.


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The card is either altered or unaltered; one owner not known to have altered cards in its history does not mean the card is unaltered. A determination should be made on evidentiary grounds of fact and examination of the card, not based on authority of what is usually not the cards only owner.

Cracking the card and actually being able to examine it does a lot more to determine if it is altered than looking at a name on the slab.

[BeanTown]

Back in the late 90s I bought an Old Judge card from Terry Knouse (TIK) and Hi Terry if you are reading, at the National. I wanted to try this new thing out called grading and walked it over to PSA to take advantage of a 10.00 show special. They said it had been trimmed, even though it measured up. I went back to Terry with the card and he walked the card back to PSA and informed them all Old Judges were hand collated and it’s needs to be graded. They said, yes sir you are right and proceeded to grade it. I think they referred to him on 19th century items back then.

Anyways, I agree if pedigree comes from a players family it’s better than just being out of a collectors collection. With that said, if I knew the collector, I wouldn’t mind having it as a cool little keepsake.

[atx840]

I think it can help.

[Exhibitman]

I think it is interesting to see the history of the ownership of a d piece. Like I have one card that went from Tik and Tik to Chad Dreier to me. I see that as a selling point.