If Dale Murphy played for the Yankees............

[Seven]

It's been said in some past posts, but I think the Yankees Bias amongst the sportswriters nowadays has gone by the wayside. Murphy was a very good player, that belongs in the Hall of Very Good.

Do I think he's more deserving of some of the veterans that have gotten in through the old veterans committee, or some recent selections like Tim Raines? Yes I do. But If I'm being honest, the Hall of Fames standards aren't what they used to be, and there's too many players in, that shouldn't be. At least it's not like the NBA or NFL where literally everyone gets in.

[packs]

Any evidence for this Yankees bump in HOF voting? If anything, today I think playing for the Yankees doesn't come with any favors. Bernie Williams lasted two votes. Jorge Posada lasted just one.

I'm not saying either of these guys are locks for the HOF but they were a lot better than 99.9% of all other players on the ballot for one or two voting cycles.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Seven

At least it's not like the NBA or NFL where literally everyone gets in.

Huh?

The NFL prior to the Covid years had a stellar record and put a solid class yearly in a sport with rosters twice the size. The NBA is very hard to get in and has just a small percentage of the members in comparison with small classes. Since the 2000s they have had leaned to bulking by adding at least one woman a year and FIBA international contributors but still have very strong NBA contributors. It's loosened but still has no worse a record than the MLB. Not seeing the proof of MLB exceptionalism here.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Huh?

The NFL prior to the Covid years had a stellar record and put a solid class yearly in a sport with rosters twice the size. The NBA is very hard to get in and has just a small percentage of the members in comparison with small classes. Since the 2000s they have had leaned to bulking by adding at least one woman a year and FIBA international contributors but still have very strong NBA contributors. It's loosened but still has no worse a record than the MLB. Not seeing the proof of MLB exceptionalism here.

Yeah, pretty much agree with this sentiment.

[G1911]

No.

Murphy is not in the Hall of Fame because Atlanta is a small-market (I guess anything but LA or NY is a small market now?), he is not in because the voters looked at the math instead of his popularity.

I am hard pressed to think of a team with more guys not in the Hall of Fame but who have an argument than the Yankees. I am unable to identify many underserving Yankee since WWII (the 1930's have the lowest standards and many teams have numerous undeserving players from that period). Phil Rizzuto, Catfish Hunter & Joe Gordon, though I think only Rizzuto is in because he was a Yankee. Hunter is in for his 5 20 win seasons, 80% with the A's. I'm not sure this implicit claim is supportable at all.

[mortimer brewster]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Huh?

The NFL prior to the Covid years had a stellar record and put a solid class yearly in a sport with rosters twice the size. The NBA is very hard to get in and has just a small percentage of the members in comparison with small classes. Since the 2000s they have had leaned to bulking by adding at least one woman a year and FIBA international contributors but still have very strong NBA contributors. It's loosened but still has no worse a record than the MLB. Not seeing the proof of MLB exceptionalism here.

The NFL has inducted over 120 players in the past 10 years into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Many are deserving yet too many players are getting in.

Please keep in mind that yes the roster sizes are larger but it has become a league of specialists with fewer every down players, especially on defense. It has been this way for nearly 30 years.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by mortimer brewster

The NFL has inducted over 120 players in the past 10 years into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Many are deserving yet too many players are getting in.

Please keep in mind that yes the roster sizes are larger but it has become a league of specialists with fewer every down players, especially on defense. It has been this way for nearly 30 years.

This is what I was referring to.

The NBA has 400 Inductees to the Hall of Fame. It's only existed since 1959.

The MLB has 342 inductees. Despite being around for 20 more years.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Seven

This is what I was referring to.

The NBA has 400 Inductees to the Hall of Fame. It's only existed since 1959.

The MLB has 342 inductees. Despite being around for 20 more years.

This is not the relevant comparison, the relevant comparison is how long MLB has been around vs. the NBA.

[wagnerj03]

Compare Alan Trammell to Dale Murphy and convince me that Murphy doesn't belong and Trammell does. Trammell never led in any major hitting category for a single season. Not one category. No MVP's, fewer All-Star appearances, fewer Gold Gloves and fewer Silver Sluggers. Just not sure how certain guys get in vs others.

IMG_6733.jpeg

[G1911]

Originally Posted by wagnerj03

Compare Alan Trammell to Dale Murphy and convince me that Murphy doesn't belong and Trammell does. Trammell never led in any major hitting category for a single season. Not one category. No MVP's, fewer All-Star appearances, fewer Gold Gloves and fewer Silver Sluggers. Just not sure how certain guys get in vs others.

Attachment 574339

A SS with good defense and a RF with good defense (the modern stats don't like Murphy's defense so much) are not evaluated as even at the plate, either traditionally or via the new stats. There is no odd standard here, Trammell squeaked in as a low end HOF SS, Murphy is outside in the Hall of Very Good among RF's. A RF with a 121 OPS+ vs. a SS with a 110 OPS+ is going to result in the SS being rated higher 99 times out of 100. We would have like 3 SS's in the hall and 100 1B otherwise.