Fanatics buys PWCC

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

The perfect encapsulation in a single story narrative of what a complete and utter farce the ‘grading’ game is. And yet everyone will continue to participate in it.

The statistical analysis was devastating, and Clemons' defense that he somehow just had a better eye than anyone else in the world was beyond absurd.

For the unfamiliar, the bottom line is that according to the analysis Clemons, a former Beckett employee, receives an astonishing, unfathomable percentage of the cards Beckett designates "Black Label" (all 4 subs 10) that can only be explained by favoritism.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The statistical analysis was devastating, and Clemons' defense that he somehow just had a better eye than anyone else in the world was beyond absurd.

For the unfamiliar, the bottom line is that according to the analysis Clemons, a former Beckett employee, receives an astonishing, unfathomable percentage of the cards Beckett designates "Black Label" (all 4 subs 10) that can only be explained by favoritism.

Whet ever happened to Mr Clemons with all the "proof" they had against him?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Whet ever happened to Mr Clemons with all the "proof" they had against him?

Nothing. To be clear, he wasn't altering cards, just getting preferential treatment, according to the claims.

[Yoda]

If Fantastics could say come up with $25 billion perhaps they could buy out the MLB club owners and have the whole package. Consider the fresh material they could auction, thinking of a 1 of a kind game used Mike Trout jock strap (perhaps not that fresh).

Just kidding, of course, but nothing about our hobby surprises me anymore. The different directions and tangents taken worry me and cards seem to be very secondary to the desire to squeeze out every possible $ out of once was a hobby.

[Johnny630]

What would the World be like if Fanatics and Collectors Merged and Became a Publicly Traded Company WOZWER GO TO WAR MRS AGNES HOLY COW....Hey it Could Happen :-)

[G1911]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Whet ever happened to Mr Clemons with all the "proof" they had against him?

I'd leave to hear a fact-based reasonable argument that the evidence is "proof" and not proof.

I don't know what anyone would expect to have happen. I don't believe he did anything illegal, he just got gift grades from opinion sellers that were his buddies and former coworkers. It exposes the farce of this game, but I don't think he committed fraud and obviously Beckett doesn't give a shit so what would we expect to happen that didn't?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by G1911

I'd leave to hear a fact-based reasonable argument that the evidence is "proof" and not proof.

I don't know what anyone would expect to have happen. I don't believe he did anything illegal, he just got gift grades from opinion sellers that were his buddies and former coworkers. It exposes the farce of this game, but I don't think he committed fraud and obviously Beckett doesn't give a shit so what would we expect to happen that didn't?

It's been done before, and yes, it's illegal.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...069-story.html

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal.../1344/2359710/

The story ends with the Philatelic Foundation repairing their reputation and again being a leader in the field.
But then, its an older hobby with far less crookedness and less tolerance for that.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by steve B

It's been done before, and yes, it's illegal.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...069-story.html

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal.../1344/2359710/

The story ends with the Philatelic Foundation repairing their reputation and again being a leader in the field.
But then, its an older hobby with far less crookedness and less tolerance for that.

This is quite different. They were selling counterfeit stamps and authenticating them by putting them in slabs. That's very different from someone offering a subjective opinion about the condition of a very much authentic item.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying what Joe Clemons et al did was OK, and he without question did receive favorable grades. I'm just saying I don't think the counterfeit stamps case would hold weight as precedence here.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The statistical analysis was devastating, and Clemons' defense that he somehow just had a better eye than anyone else in the world was beyond absurd.

For the unfamiliar, the bottom line is that according to the analysis Clemons, a former Beckett employee, receives an astonishing, unfathomable percentage of the cards Beckett designates "Black Label" (all 4 subs 10) that can only be explained by favoritism.

Or he hacked the system and changed the grades. Worked for Ferris Bueller's attendance record.

I don't see a problem with graders being collectors. It isn't like they are going to pocket the cards for their PCs. The problem is if the graders receive preferential treatment on their own subs.

The basic problem is our assumption that grading is a blind process performed by the pure at heart in monks' cells. It isn't. Never has been, especially at the National or any other on-site venue. I've had collectors and graders bring me in to look at boxing cards right in front of grading booths at the National. No anonymity there.