Help with Authenticity - Ruth, Mantle, Mays

[gonefishin]

Not saying this is the case with your seller, but many times a scam artist will include a couple of authentic, lower valued, cards in the mix to throw you off on the authentication process. Look for all the obvious clues, coloring, format, etc.

If all seems ok, take a bright light and shine it through the back of the card for transparency - no light should come through in the 50s and earlier cards.

Then take a loop, or magnifying device that can magnify up to 100x. Use the loop, or device, and check the print dots on the card. Counterfeit operations, in most cases, cannot duplicate the printing methods of the 40s - 50s. Go on-line and read about modern print dots as compared to print dots in the 50s and earlier.

If it passes all these steps, and they probably won't, you can be about 50-65% sure they are real.

Hope this helps.

P.S. I always walk away from a deal if I find any counterfeits - one bad apple does spoil the bunch for me - unless it is someone that I've known a long time.

[redauto5]

Originally Posted by gonefishin

Not saying this is the case with your seller, but many times a scam artist will include a couple of authentic, lower valued, cards in the mix to throw you off on the authentication process. Look for all the obvious clues, coloring, format, etc.



If all seems ok, take a bright light and shine it through the back of the card for transparency - no light should come through in the 50s and earlier cards.



Then take a loop, or magnifying device that can magnify up to 100x. Use the loop, or device, and check the print dots on the card. Counterfeit operations, in most cases, cannot duplicate the printing methods of the 40s - 50s. Go on-line and read about modern print dots as compared to print dots in the 50s and earlier.



If it passes all these steps, and they probably won't, you can be about 50-65% sure they are real.



Hope this helps.



P.S. I always walk away from a deal if I find any counterfeits - one bad apple does spoil the bunch for me - unless it is someone that I've known a long time.

I'm definitely souring on the deal, but truly believe the seller is not a scammer. His avenue of buying was a mistake. PMed you some details, don't want to divulge any details on a public forum for the sellers privacy. I'm going to go in with as much knowledge as possible and just be honest with him.

I'll definitely get a loupe and a light and will start practicing, thanks for the direction.



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[Eric72]

Originally Posted by gonefishin

...I always walk away from a deal if I find any counterfeits - one bad apple does spoil the bunch for me - unless it is someone that I've known a long time.

This.

If there are counterfeits mixed in, the seller either (a) doesn't know what they're doing or (b) knows exactly what they're doing.

Either scenario is generally bad for a buyer.

[redauto5]

Originally Posted by Eric72

This.



If there are counterfeits mixed in, the seller either (a) doesn't know what they're doing or (b) knows exactly what they're doing.



Either scenario is generally bad for a buyer.

This is a common sense, conservative strategy to make sure one doesn't get burned absolutely. If the seller won't allow me to buy just the cards I'm comfortable with I will walk away. He's giving me every opportunity to figure out what I'm comfortable with which gives me confidence I can figure it out with enough determination. Cheers.

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[Eric72]

Originally Posted by redauto5

This is a common sense, conservative strategy to make sure one doesn't get burned absolutely. If the seller won't allow me to buy just the cards I'm comfortable with I will walk away. He's giving me every opportunity to figure out what I'm comfortable with which gives me confidence I can figure it out with enough determination. Cheers.

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The strategy to which I made reference is different than what you mention here. You're talking about comfort level. I'm talking about counterfeits.

A fake card is fake, regardless of one's comfort level. If someone is trying to sell a fake, and I've identified the card as fake, I won't deal with them.

Period.

[redauto5]

Originally Posted by Eric72

The strategy to which I made reference is different than what you mention here. You're talking about comfort level. I'm talking about counterfeits.



A fake card is fake, regardless of one's comfort level. If someone is trying to sell a fake, and I've identified the card as fake, I won't deal with them.



Period.

What if I'm convinced he has no idea if what he has is fake or not? That he has probably never even considered the possibility? I won't go into details for his privacy but this isn't your average scummy fake card seller cruising into the card shop smelling like cigarettes and all sped up and whatnot.

I get what you're saying, as others here have mentioned. You've learned from experience to draw that hard line when counterfeits appear. Perhaps I'm being naive in thinking I can navigate this whole thing and all you guys are just shaking your heads with the knowledge I'm going to come back with a sob story at some point. Your collective experiences are pointing to me running quickly away from this as far and fast as I can. I get it.

But I'll never learn if I don't take risks, and me passing on the cards in question if it comes down to it and acquiring the rest of the collection at good value seems like a good, measured risk to me.

Will I find more fakes in the piece of the collection I buy? Likely. But if I account for this likelihood in the deal itself I shouldn't get hurt too bad in the grand scheme of things. At least this is what I'm telling my naive, inexperienced self!

Regardless, I appreciate everyone's efforts in attempting to guide me. I am listening and internalizing.

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[swarmee]

Originally Posted by redauto5

But I'll never learn if I don't take risks, and me passing on the cards in question if it comes down to it and acquiring the rest of the collection at good value seems like a good, measured risk to me.

I agree with you. Should have mentioned earlier that you can make the determination yourself if you read the articles in the "Net54 Baseball Archive Center" image link above.
One of my best purchases at a card show in Pensacola was a signed 1933 Goudey that the seller didn't even realize was autographed until I pointed it out. He also had some counterfeit T206 cards that were cut out of the Dover reprint guide. I told him those were counterfeit, and he apologized for his ignorance and destroyed the fakes in front of me. I then bought the Goudey. His other stuff was all correct, he just didn't think someone would have fake T206s in such poor shape (trimmed/creased) in a collection he bought.