How many fake autographs out there?

[pt7455]

Just personal experience. I have several thousand autographed cards some my father had signed in the 40’s and 50’s and a ton I purchased on eBay etc raw with no COA etc. I’m by no means an autograph expert but I do look at each autograph and make the best determination I can. With that being said over the last 6 months I’ve sent around 400 cards to PSA for authentication and I’ve had a total of 4 come back as questionable where they were not graded by PSA. Maybe I’m just lucky but I think saying 90% of all autographs of HOFers are fake is really high? Again just my opinion. Also the cards I sent in were all HOFers except for Roger Maris and Tony C.


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[homerunhitter]

i agree 90% is way too high of an estimate.

[homerunhitter]

makes me want to only collect factory certified pack pulled autographs only! you guys are right....TPAs suck!

[theshleps]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

makes me want to only collect factory certified pack pulled autographs only! you guys are right....TPAs suck!

Some of those topps originals especially 2004 Aaron, Mays etc are forged and there is no way to look up cert #'s etc so beware

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

makes me want to only collect factory certified pack pulled autographs only! you guys are right....TPAs suck!

Originally Posted by theshleps

Some of those topps originals especially 2004 Aaron, Mays etc are forged and there is no way to look up cert #'s etc so beware

Not only are some forged but there is a ring counterfeiting the cards and adding forged autos to them.

I agree with many that say you need to learn autos to collect them.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by pt7455

Just personal experience. I have several thousand autographed cards some my father had signed in the 40’s and 50’s and a ton I purchased on eBay etc raw with no COA etc. I’m by no means an autograph expert but I do look at each autograph and make the best determination I can. With that being said over the last 6 months I’ve sent around 400 cards to PSA for authentication and I’ve had a total of 4 come back as questionable where they were not graded by PSA. Maybe I’m just lucky but I think saying 90% of all autographs of HOFers are fake is really high? Again just my opinion. Also the cards I sent in were all HOFers except for Roger Maris and Tony C.


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Hi Patrick, I'm not sure if you are sending while Keating on vacation, but I have gone from a 10-15% fail rate to 40-50% fail rate on autos from multiple sources over the last 2 years. AND some are players who are living or recently deceased, mostly from the 52 topps set. Nippy Jones, Lou Brissie, Bo Kelly to name a few. Each of which I've probably handled a dozen or so copies TTM! I'd rather them err on the side of caution, but it is getting a little silly

[pt7455]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Hi Patrick, I'm not sure if you are sending while Keating on vacation, but I have gone from a 10-15% fail rate to 40-50% fail rate on autos from multiple sources over the last 2 years. AND some are players who are living or recently deceased, mostly from the 52 topps set. Nippy Jones, Lou Brissie, Bo Kelly to name a few. Each of which I've probably handled a dozen or so copies TTM! I'd rather them err on the side of caution, but it is getting a little silly

Absolutely understand! Again this is just my personal experience and of course the next batch I send in all could fail. I don’t believe that 90% of all autographs are fakes but of course there are many out there. I did have a 58 Ted Williams signed in front of me in the 80’s that PSA failed I thought that was kind of funny! I do agree I would rather have any grading company fail a card if their not sure. Again just personal experience!
Best
Patrick’s


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[homerunhitter]

are there any other players they are counterfeiting besides mays and aaron to look out for? its a shame that people cant just collect without some dickhead ass wipes ruining the hobby by forging and counterfeiting cards/autographs.

[Hankphenom]

To state the obvious, wherever there is money to be made, fraudsters will come in to try to make it. That's a universal principle, so I don't know why it should come as any surprise in this hobby. And I would think that fact might make collectors, especially those who don't have the time or interest to become experts themselves in such a broad collecting universe, to have a fairly profound appreciation for the TPAs, who, at least the big boys, have shown themselves to be pretty darn good over the years. So instead of being in the wild west of several decades ago, an intelligent autograph collector these days has the option, for a relatively small fee compared to the value of these things, of having a serious expert, who has devoted his career to their study, of passing judgement. OK, so anyone with a collection in the thousands, or even hundreds, has stories of TPA error one way or the other--passed bad ones or rejected ones signed in person--but what do you suppose the percentage is of those mistakes compared to the ones they get right. Would you accept that % in one of YOUR employees? I think so. Instead of vilification, maybe they should get a little more love for making this expensive hobby/investment safe to indulge in, knowing there won't be any nasty surprises when it's time for you or your heirs to sell. Just my two cents.

[homerunhitter]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

To state the obvious, wherever there is money to be made, fraudsters will come in to try to make it. That's a universal principle, so I don't know why it should come as any surprise in this hobby. And I would think that fact might make collectors, especially those who don't have the time or interest to become experts themselves in such a broad collecting universe, to have a fairly profound appreciation for the TPAs, who, at least the big boys, have shown themselves to be pretty darn good over the years. So instead of being in the wild west of several decades ago, an intelligent autograph collector these days has the option, for a relatively small fee compared to the value of these things, of having a serious expert, who has devoted his career to their study, of passing judgement. OK, so anyone with a collection in the thousands, or even hundreds, has stories of TPA error one way or the other--passed bad ones or rejected ones signed in person--but what do you suppose the percentage is of those mistakes compared to the ones they get right. Would you accept that % in one of YOUR employees? I think so. Instead of vilification, maybe they should get a little more love for making this expensive hobby/investment safe to indulge in, knowing there won't be any nasty surprises when it's time for you or your heirs to sell. Just my two cents.

Hank,
very well said and spot on! I agree with you my friend. I was starting to learn toward just collecting signed canceled checks of HOFers. My rational was that signed checks should be as close to an authentic signed piece as one can get then....I started to research it and the more I looked into it, I read somewhere on here that these scammers are now using high dollar laser printers to make/print signed checks that look so real and look so authentic that most people (including TPAs) could not tell the difference. so back to the drawing board! I think now ill just collect factory pack pulled autographs! because as we can see there are forgeries in EVERYTHING we collect but I think a topps certified autograph is likely more authentic than a PSA slabbed autograph. just my 2 cents worth!

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

Hank,
very well said and spot on! I agree with you my friend. I was starting to learn toward just collecting signed canceled checks of HOFers. My rational was that signed checks should be as close to an authentic signed piece as one can get then....I started to research it and the more I looked into it, I read somewhere on here that these scammers are now using high dollar laser printers to make/print signed checks that look so real and look so authentic that most people (including TPAs) could not tell the difference. so back to the drawing board! I think now ill just collect factory pack pulled autographs! because as we can see there are forgeries in EVERYTHING we collect but I think a topps certified autograph is likely more authentic than a PSA slabbed autograph. just my 2 cents worth!

To each his own, but I'd guess the error rate on PSA or other major TPA autographs to be miniscule, and I mean practically infinitesimal compared to the volume of pieces they look at--I don't know, 1/10,000, 1/100,000, 1/million, you take your own wild guess. And even the few bad ones in a major TPA slab will always be regarded as good by the marketplace. So I'm not sure what makes you so afraid of them, but just imagine if they didn't exist!