1952 Topps Images of All Variations <Rolling Thread>

[Zach Wheat]

#200 Ralph Houk - dark pink background, red facial tint & #200 Houk with a light pink background, normal tint

[irv]

The H&S link Al had posted in the 52 Topps pic thread.
http://aug13.hugginsandscott.com/cgi...l?itemid=59354
And the link within the link to show the variations that were included with the sold set.
http://aug13.hugginsandscott.com/pdf/1952_topps.pdf

[Zach Wheat]

Thanks Irv.

We will need some help on this card. Following are 3 #307 Campos variations - regular version, a full red-star, black-star version and a partial border break version.

Regarding the partial border break variation, there are several variations regarding the number of white/yellow stars on the front. The red star black star variation comes with differing amounts of red and black ink on the stars. I believe Al-R had a partial red-star, black-star variation at one time. This is believed to be the rarest Campos red-star, black-star variation (est 50 in existence).

I am unclear exactly how many variations there are of this card.

[Republicaninmass]

Anyone know what the "corrected " partial border looks like?


Yes there IS an answer IMO

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Anyone know what the "corrected " partial border looks like?


Yes there IS an answer IMO

Ted,

I have purchased a dozen or so Campos cards over the years since it is obvious there were a number of changes to the border and color separations (or perhaps just printing differences) on this card in particular. Here are 5 other Campos, 1 that is a partial top border, 3 white star variation. Ted, I can't tell any differences in the cropping of the black border on any of the full border cards. This has to be where the variation occurs, right?

[irv]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Ted,

I have purchased a dozen or so Campos cards over the years since it is obvious there were a number of changes to the border and color separations (or perhaps just printing differences) on this card in particular. Here are 5 other Campos, 1 that is a partial top border, 3 white star variation. Ted, I can't tell any differences in the cropping of the black border on any of the full border cards. This has to be where the variation occurs, right?

Interesting.
Is it safe to say the Campos cards with the white stars are only on cards with the missing border or can they also be found on other, non missing border cards?
I wasn't aware of this variation and since they are very hard to see, I wonder if I've encountered cards along the way with this variation if in fact they are on other cards without the missing border?

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by irv

Interesting.
Is it safe to say the Campos cards with the white stars are only on cards with the missing border or can they also be found on other, non missing border cards?
I wasn't aware of this variation and since they are very hard to see, I wonder if I've encountered cards along the way with this variation if in fact they are on other cards without the missing border?

Irv,

They are on the Campos partial top border cards.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Ted,

I have purchased a dozen or so Campos cards over the years since it is obvious there were a number of changes to the border and color separations (or perhaps just printing differences) on this card in particular. Here are 5 other Campos, 1 that is a partial top border, 3 white star variation. Ted, I can't tell any differences in the cropping of the black border on any of the full border cards. This has to be where the variation occurs, right?

One other posted is the "fixed" or pre error version.

[steve B]

A few thoughts on the House card that I hope will clarify some stuff.

The general process -
Original art photographed through filters to separate colors and through a screen to make the halftone for each color.

Produces single color negatives (Black and white film, but big. )

Those negatives are put together on an opaque paper or plastic sheet. Most likely paper in 52.

That is the mask, essentially a full sheet sized negative. One for each color.

Flaws in that negative can be fixed in a few ways, specks from dust in the air getting photographed can be painted over with a red colored version of whiteout. (What a fun day that was.... ) Larger mistakes can be covered with a special red cellotape.
Stuff that should print but didn't come out can be drawn in by hand by scratching off some emulsion. It's possible, but sloppy. The place I was I think they'd redo whatever had gone wrong.

Those Masks are used in a special machine to expose the plate which gets developed, checked then sent to the press room to be put on the press and printed.

On the press, a few maybe more copies are run on scrap paper (make ready sheets) to make sure the inking is right, the registration is adjusted properly etc.
Then the actual production sheets are printed.

Stoning off is done to remove something on the plate that is printing but shouldn't.



Something like the House can happen a lot of different ways.
The original art is usually held flat behind glass, if that glass has some stuff on it, hand print or something, a bit of it may not photograph well enough to show up. That's something we would have redone, as it's not really fixable in any practical way.

More likely is stuff on the glass holder for the mask in the plate exposing machine. That has essentially the same result, see the 90 Frank Thomas NNOF and related cards.

That's also not exactly fixable, parts of the red wouldn't print , leaving the neck looking green.
Making that even more probable is that the ones with green show some red in the logo, so whatever was on the glass wasn't solidly opaque like what was probably tape for the NNOF.
For production work with a deadline, that would probably be acceptable. Meaning they knew, and decided to fix it later.

The normal neck missing red may have come first. To me that one looks like they messed up and covered over the log on the red mask.
The negatives they did probably all showed some of the logo, and parts would have been blocked off on different colors. Blocking what shouldn't have been blocked (Or not blocking it off which is almost for sure what caused the black star on Campos) leaves an unprinted area with the rest being normal.
The red could have been stoned off the red plate to "fix" the logo, but I'm not sure why they would.
Plate wear can also affect stuff printing or not, the areas that print are slightly raised above the plate surface. We never did a big enough run for it to be a problem.

The correct version would be from further red plates (Or both earlier and later ones than the mistakes) where the glass in the plate exposer was cleaned so everything came out right.
Someone may or may not have gotten a talking to about it. Depending on if they ran the bad plate until it was time to replace it, or if they replaced it quickly.*

* Dammit Dave! Thats the second time this month your glazed donut frosting has messed up a plate. Don't let it happen again!

[irv]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Thanks Irv.

We will need some help on this card. Following are 3 #307 Campos variations - regular version, a full red-star, black-star version and a partial border break version.

Regarding the partial border break variation, there are several variations regarding the number of white/yellow stars on the front. The red star black star variation comes with differing amounts of red and black ink on the stars. I believe Al-R had a partial red-star, black-star variation at one time. This is believed to be the rarest Campos red-star, black-star variation (est 50 in existence).

I am unclear exactly how many variations there are of this card.

The only ones I am somewhat familiar with are the "Front Missing Border", the "Black star on the back" and the partial "Black star on the back" cards.
The number of white/yellow stars on the front is a new one to me that I've never, (or at least don't recall), heard of before?