Would you take this deal?

[FrankWakefield]

Anyone here ever trade down, and then 3 years later be glad that they did?


If you really need the money, you need to trade, or maybe just sell the card outright.

I've sold a few cards that I wish I still had. A factor in that is that I still collect. If I was selling off the cards I have, I'd probably still miss whatever it is that you have, but I'd be missing all of my cards.

For you, if you're continuing with collecting, then that trade down card will always be there to remind you of what you once had, that'll be slightly more annoying, I suspect, than just having the memory alone.

In conclusion; if you're selling your collection then don't trade down, or trade down if you think that the trade down card plus the side money exceeds what you'd get in an outright sale. If you're going to continue with collecting, then don't trade...


Again, anyone here ever trade down, and then 3 years later be glad that they did?

And, do you guys really let tax factors dictate whether you buy, sell, or hold a card??? Really?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Anyone here ever trade down, and then 3 years later be glad that they did?


If you really need the money, you need to trade, or maybe just sell the card outright.

I've sold a few cards that I wish I still had. A factor in that is that I still collect. If I was selling off the cards I have, I'd probably still miss whatever it is that you have, but I'd be missing all of my cards.

For you, if you're continuing with collecting, then that trade down card will always be there to remind you of what you once had, that'll be slightly more annoying, I suspect, than just having the memory alone.

In conclusion; if you're selling your collection then don't trade down, or trade down if you think that the trade down card plus the side money exceeds what you'd get in an outright sale. If you're going to continue with collecting, then don't trade...


Again, anyone here ever trade down, and then 3 years later be glad that they did?

And, do you guys really let tax factors dictate whether you buy, sell, or hold a card??? Really?

I have traded down many times and have never regretted it. For me it was usually going from a graded to ungraded example. I have also done the 1 expensive card for several lesser cards many times with no regrets.

[parkplace33]

Very hard to give an opinion without knowing a) the specific card and b) the amount of cash you will be getting. But I will try

My concern is when you say "In this case, the item in question is one of the Crown Jewels of my collection. I paid more for it than I’ve paid for any other single piece. And at the moment, it’s arguably the most valuable piece in my collection." I think you have your answer there. Keep it and enjoy. And maybe let go of another piece if you want the cash.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Very hard to give an opinion without knowing a) the specific card and b) the amount of cash you will be getting. But I will try

My concern is when you say "In this case, the item in question is one of the Crown Jewels of my collection. I paid more for it than I’ve paid for any other single piece. And at the moment, it’s arguably the most valuable piece in my collection." I think you have your answer there. Keep it and enjoy. And maybe let go of another piece if you want the cash.

I tend to agree with Drew and say keep it and enjoy it and enjoy knowing you have the highest graded.

But you cannot lose in either way which depends on the cash getting back which we do not know and what your plans might or might not be.

[steve B]

I think I would keep the card I have if I might not end up with money to spend once it's all settled.

I mostly do low end stuff, so low we just include any hobby money I get as misc income(the gross, like if I sell a card for $10 i report $10. Yes, we pay extra in taxes, but in most years it's not even enough to worry about. And figuring out a reasonable cost for things bought in large lots 40 years ago seems crazy. Like is my Gretzky rookie the $50 the entire 5000 count box of hockey cards cost? Or is it .01 ...........

Of course this has brought up many questions for me, since I've collected for decades. I essentially have no records pre-Ebay. And after Ebay only have a messy archive of "you won!" emails.

And how does cost basis work trading the other way. Like I buy a lot of stamps on Ebay, $40 for six. They have a wide range of catalog values, all have varieties making them more valuable than the basic ones they were described as. Some aren't cataloged and are hard to place an accurate value on. One is around $2000 catalog value. Two years later I swap that stamp plus cash for a different stamp that has a slightly higher catalog value. ( literally the only way I could have ever gotten one) How the _ do I figure that one someday when it gets sold. Or more likely how do my kids figure the value.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by steve B

I think I would keep the card I have if I might not end up with money to spend once it's all settled.



I mostly do low end stuff, so low we just include any hobby money I get as misc income(the gross, like if I sell a card for $10 i report $10. Yes, we pay extra in taxes, but in most years it's not even enough to worry about. And figuring out a reasonable cost for things bought in large lots 40 years ago seems crazy. Like is my Gretzky rookie the $50 the entire 5000 count box of hockey cards cost? Or is it .01 ...........



Of course this has brought up many questions for me, since I've collected for decades. I essentially have no records pre-Ebay. And after Ebay only have a messy archive of "you won!" emails.

You can request spreadsheets from ebay now, that show all your transactions, I think going back to 2000. It is in your member area somewhere. If you can't find it, PM me, and I will walk you through it.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

You can request spreadsheets from ebay now, that show all your transactions, I think going back to 2000. It is in your member area somewhere. If you can't find it, PM me, and I will walk you through it.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

I didn't know they did that now.
I haven't sold on there in years, not since a stage when they changed rules what seemed like weekly.
Having my paypal hacked was another strike against, my using them. They were useless in resolving it, and their 2 factor authentication was worse that useless. Like the next scam was at 4 AM our time, and they allowed it to go through after an hour because we didn't reply saying it was false. Plus for some reason they said it fit my normal pattern of use or some rubbish. Like I sat up until 4am to send money to someone in africa...
Anti virus/anti malware - multiple different ones over multiple scans found no malware or viruses, and yet things were still compromised.
I buy occasionally, but have my wife do the actual buying through her far more secure work computer.

I may return to Ebay at some point, but not for anything "good"

[brian1961]

You never, EVER, trade down on your crown jewel card. Afterwards, when you look at what you got in return, regardless of the cash left over after taxes, you would feel the most intense seller's / trader's remorse and regret the day you agreed to the deal.

In this day and age, or in the next few years, should you decide to replace that now-gone crown jewel with one that is very close to it in eye appeal and condition, you will spend a lot of time and effort to only find it cannot be done. You'll just feel all the more worse about your decision.

When ya get a card you consider to be a crown jewel, the time to part with it is when you're ready to call it quits and retire from collecting, and generate funds for your demise and your surviving family. Hate to say it; sell it while it's still very desirable and the price at least near its high. Sounds like a stock---but you better believe you must break off the emotional attachment you've enjoyed with the card to psychologically feel released to say goodbye to it.

These are decisions we ALL have to face one way or another. Ask God for wisdom as to what to do. --- Brian Powell

[raulus]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

And, do you guys really let tax factors dictate whether you buy, sell, or hold a card??? Really?

I think for a lot of us, we pine for the good old days when lame adult stuff like taxes didn't matter. We could sit at home and trade cards all day long with our friends, and probably not even worry about stuff like centering and corners. And we sure didn't fuss about something as ludicrous as taxes. I suspect that a lot of the posts around here lamenting the current sad state of affairs are largely a mawkish plea for a return to the simplicity of childhood.

But returning to the here and now, when it comes to taxes, I'll admit to being a bit of an odd duck this way.

Part of the added fun here is that I really wasn't looking for this hypothetical deal. It came to me, rather than me seeking it out. I think if I had independently decided that it's time and I'm ready to sell this piece, or sell my collection entirely, then I would just sort of take the tax consequences and live with them.

I will also confess that I have an added overlay as a tax professional. I've worked pretty bloody hard for the last 20 years to get to where I am today as a senior partner at a top-30 CPA firm, and the pecuniary rewards for that hard work are pretty substantial. For the average American who takes a little more risk in being aggressive on their taxes, the consequences of getting caught usually aren't too severe. Pay your back taxes plus some penalties and interest. And a judge yells at you a bit about the importance of being a good citizen and paying your fair share. I think we can all agree that following the law is always a good idea, although for some of us, the risks of a little noncompliance are not quite so harrowing.

For a CPA, particularly one in my position, the consequences are typically a lot more severe, potentially even including some jail time, although that wouldn't necessarily be the worst of it. Among other things, if I were to blatantly cheat on my taxes, I would undoubtedly lose my license. And losing my license means that I get fired, and no one will ever hire me again.

So for me, the tax issues are generally front of mind, and can make a big difference in my approach.

[whiteymet]

If you are a COLLECTOR If I don't need the $$$ I hold on to my crown jewel.

Should things change down the road where you need money, which in your described position does not seem to be expected, you will still have the highest graded card which over the years should, as history has shown, increase even more in value.

But then you will have even MORE taxes to pay down the road when you sell it!

[raulus]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

If you are a COLLECTOR If I don't need the $$$ I hold on to my crown jewel.

Should things change down the road where you need money, which in your described position does not seem to be expected, you will still have the highest graded card which over the years should, as history has shown, increase even more in value.

But then you will have even MORE taxes to pay down the road when you sell it!

HA. Thanks Fred. You're right that I don't need the cash. And I need it even less if I'm just turning around and giving it to the tax man.

One potential saving grace when I do sell is that I can first move to a state with no state income tax, thereby saving myself the 9% that I would otherwise have to pay if I sell whilst living here in the great state of Oregon.

Of course, there's always the real possibility that federal income taxes will rise in the next few decades, thereby offsetting some or all of the savings that I might otherwise enjoy by moving to another state with zero income tax.

And there's also the possibility that states like Oregon will enact some of the exit taxes that they've been threatening to levy. When you move out of a high tax state to a low tax state, the general concept is that they tax you on everything you own that has appreciated while you've lived in the high tax state. That way you can't just move to another state and sell it without paying the old state. I know that it's been proposed in a few states, but to my knowledge hasn't been implemented just yet.

[BobbyStrawberry]

" A close inspection of these two items suggests that they are very similar in quality. Some might even argue that the lower graded piece is as nice as the highest graded piece"

If YOU would argue this, then I say: do it!

[Exhibitman]

One of the reasons I operate an actual card/collectibles business with a resale permit and Schedule C filing every year is so I don't have to get into this "collection-investment" quagmire. I sell it through the business at the cost basis I paid for it. No games, no nonsense. I take my hits on profits, and offset it with whatever losses. If a taxing entity wants to challenge my status, bring it. I have an unlimited budget for litigating.

I know the tax jocks outweigh my puny lawyering understanding, but if it was my deal, I'd keep it simple and clean: sell the item for an agreed price and purchase the other one for an agreed price. Put it in writing, and pay whatever taxes are due on the profit. Not worth your ticket to play around. Mechanically, you can do it as a trade with cash boot, but contractually, just make it two sales.

Now, as far as whether I would make the trade, probably not under the scenario laid out. If I care about the registry and I don't want to eat a ton of taxes, it isn't worth it to me. The fact that Nicolo (forgive the 3rd person usage) has trepidations about it to the point of posting it here tells me that he doesn't really want to do the deal anyway. I am the same way. If you want one of my Maltese Falcons, the price is going to be stroke-inducing to make it worth my while, and if I feel bad about it, nope. Life's too short for regretting a card deal.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

The fact that Nicolo (forgive the 3rd person usage) has trepidations about it to the point of posting it here tells me that he doesn't really want to do the deal anyway. I am the same way. If you want one of my Maltese Falcons, the price is going to be stroke-inducing to make it worth my while, and if I feel bad about it, nope. Life's too short for regretting a card deal.

Honestly, my motivation was mostly to give us something else to think about and to talk about. Plus I figured I would learn a few things from my fellow collectors, which I definitely have.

It's a chat board, after all!

Almost as soon as it was proposed, the hypothetical deal was withdrawn by the counterparty. As a result, I didn't have much of a chance to really get deep into an exercise in omphaloskepsis.

And I suppose if I'm being honest, my penchant for voyeurism and over-sharing needs an outlet somewhere. Since I'm not on any social media channel, this is kind of the only club that will put up with my lunacy.