Red Cross - Is it really a Louisiana exclusive?

[jingram058]

I used to smoke, rather heavily before I went into the Navy and early on in the Navy. My first ship, USS Midway CV-41, I think EVERYONE on that ship smoked, officers and enlisted. Hell, if you didn't smoke, and drink on liberty, you were looked on very carefully. "What's wrong with that guy?" You lived for the "smoking lamp" to be re-lit. It was out throughout the ship while transferring fuel, during unreps alongside an oiler. There were no women on that ship, or any other ship in the Navy other than tenders, at that time, early 1980s. Because of working during flight ops, it was pretty much impossible to get to the mess decks for chow. My healthy diet consisted of coffee, "Cup Noodles" ramen, and cigarettes. The cigarettes of choice were Marlboro reds, 35 cents a pack, $3.50 a carton, in the aft smoke shop or main deck ship's store.

Shift gears to the early 1990s, Operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm and Operation Southern Watch in the Persian Gulf on USS Independence CV-62. You could still smoke, but while I was serving on that bird farm, the smoking policy changed from all authorized spaces to only designated places outside, i.e., sponsons. I now saw women occasionally; aviators who would fly out for "car quals" (arrested landings and cat launches) and sometimes have to remain on board overnight. Because I was now a 1st Class Petty Officer, a supervisor, I could now eat regular meals. And I cut way back on my smoking.

Now shift again to USS George Washington CVN-73. A new ship, and women all over the ship. The policy now is the smoking lamp is out. Now I am an officer, LT(jg), and I stand bridge watches and qualify as OOD (officer of the deck) underway. Now I have to set the example. Everything the enlisted people have to do, I have to do, only better. Otherwise, how can they have any real respect? My smoking and drinking days are far behind me. Now, instead of smoking, physical fitness is the thing during hours not on watch; running laps on the flight deck, push-ups, sit-ups, etc.

At some point before I quit "cold turkey" smoking altogether, I changed from strictly Marlboros to the occasional pack of Newports. Those cigarettes were made by Lorillard. Still around since the days of t205, t206, t210 and t211.

[Pat R]

I'm not sure what cards they would be but these ads are from 1891

Red Cross The_Times_Democrat_Tue__Sep_1__1891_.jpg

Red Cross The_Times_Picayune_Tue__Sep_1__1891_.jpg

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Pat R

I'm not sure what cards they would be but these ads are from 1891

Nice find. These must be the circus scenes or the actresses; the pugilists could not have appeared before 1893. Neither of these 2 sets are "cutout" in the sense they have cuts or are die-cut or are stand-up type cards. The subjects are portrayed without much of a background, so perhaps it is referring to that aesthetic of portrayal.

[brass_rat]

I have seven of these but only screenshots of two right now. I've only ever seen them once... All are non-sports but are really pretty.

I can get out and actually scan them at a later date.

Cheers,
Steve

[G1911]

Originally Posted by brass_rat

I have seven of these but only screenshots of two right now. I've only ever seen them once... All are non-sports but are really pretty.

I can get out and actually scan them at a later date.

Cheers,
Steve

Those are nice. Never seen them before.

Attached are examples of the N264, N266 and N268 cards that Forbes & Mitchell list for the brand.

[Pat R]

Thanks for posting those Steve it is very likely that they are what the ads were for.

Here's another ad from 1884 for a poster

Red Cross The_Journal_Times_Wed__Jul_30__1884_.jpg

[RCMcKenzie]

When you say "this crowd" probably agrees, what other crowd knows or cares about these subjects? I'm not being confrontational, I'm just wondering.

Maybe I don't understand. Does it not matter to you where cards are discovered? Do you believe that Tango Eggs is a Louisiana issue? I've only heard the story. I wasn't there.

Are regional issues a myth, or only Louisiana tobacco issues? Are Zee-nuts from Cailfornia? Have I been misled all along?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

When you say "this crowd" probably agrees, what other crowd knows or cares about these subjects? I'm not being confrontational, I'm just wondering.

I know for a fact that there are multiple types of collectors of T cards, and not all of them are the type reminiscing about Philadelphia shows 30-40 years ago. "This crowd" is the group you specifically identified and chose for a rhetorical point.

That people believe X does not make X true, and we have found many times in research that what people think to be true oft is not. That is the beauty of proper research, we can learn new things, correct things, and expand our knowledge about hobby items we like. Knowledge comes from evidence, not authority.

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Maybe I don't understand. Does it not matter to you where cards are discovered? Do you believe that Tango Eggs is a Louisiana issue? I've only heard the story. I wasn't there.

Sure it matters. It is not the only thing that matters, nor the best evidence.

All of the original collections of T218 and T220 cards I have bought over the years have been from New York (or from a family that was in New York in that time period and later moved), where the lithographer and the packing factories were located. Does this mean they are a New York State only issue? Obviously not. Some Robertson's Candy cards have come from Canada. Does this mean they were even issued there at all? The evidence very, very strongly suggests that they were a regional from a single store in New York City. I purchased an original collection of C52's that came from NY originally, and another from a family in Virginia that was in Virginia in the time period of issue. Does this mean they were issued there? Maybe it's a clue these might be more than an Imperial release, maybe not. It sure isn't proof that the set isn't a Canadian issue.

I am hardly surprised many cards have been found, or claimed to be found (I am just accepting every story as true), in LA. That doesn't mean something is only there.

Some of X have been found in Y
Authorities say X was only from Y
X is only from Y

One should surely see room for legitimate question in the basis here. There's some massive extrapolations here that don't seem to mesh with the brand's actual history.

I cannot meaningfully comment on Tango Eggs as I have done no research into the story. Tango Eggs have nothing whatsoever to do with Lorillard's or ATC distribution. The find is one of the coolest stories in baseball card lore and I own a type card.

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Are regional issues a myth, or only Louisiana tobacco issues? Are Zee-nuts from Cailfornia? Have I been misled all along?

If primary source evidence arose that Zeenut was selling their candy in North Carolina as well, do you honestly think it would be unreasonable to examine if cards inserted into those packs were also there? Surely the question would be understandable?

Evidence was provided that does not mesh with the story told; and evidence in support asked for so that the totality of evidence may be examined publicly by anyone and everyone interested in the production and distribution details of T cards. While it is easier to spin into a joke implying my argument is that regional issues are a myth, nobody has said anything even remotely approaching this absurdity. I know by now that even the most elementary of evidentiary bases that are expected in any other subject of research or inquiry will be met like this by many pre-war collectors who are for some reason attached to a particular outcome.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Do you believe that Tango Eggs is a Louisiana issue? I've only heard the story. I wasn't there.

Came across the first one while looking for something else unrelated, so back to it.

1) National Poultry, Butter and Egg Bulletin, September 1919. Branches in 2 Texas cities, Mississippi, and Havana.

2) Texas Department of Agriculture, State's Marketing Bulletin Volume 2, issue 11, 1920. They are also buying poultry in Texas.

In 1915 the U.S. Egg and Poultry Magazine has the L. Frank Company taking the lead in an effort by the industry to reduce rail rates in Texas because eggs from Texas weigh less than eggs from New York (today I learned) but were charged at the NY weight.

Seems this company was headquarted in NO, but also did not restrict its operations to the local level and was actively engaged in business throughout the southeast at least. They claim to be "New Orleans' largest poultry and egg handlers in the south"; I cannot find much on the Tango branding that appears on the cards.

Unlike Red Sun and Red Cross; it seems their card set was barely issued if issued at all. There's a true handful of what appear to be original circulation cards. I believe only 2 have the number stamps. The letter states how the lot that accounts for almost all of the cards was acquired in New Orleans. If properly issued, it may well not have been an NO exclusive, it appears.