Red Sun - Is it really a Louisiana exclusive?

[Pat R]

I guess that I was the only one that was fascinated that the American Tobacco Company controlled 96% of the cigarette output in the world in 1910.

ATC Cairo The_Charlotte_News_Fri__Jul_26__1907_.jpg

ATC Canada and Japan Winston_Salem_Journal_Fri__Jan_6__1905_.jpg

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[steve B]

I think I just missed it. It is amazing, in many ways.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by steve B

I think I just missed it. It is amazing, in many ways.

It's amazing how powerful they actually were, it took the government 4 years to dissolve the monopoly that they had.

The government even placed a ban on ATC products in the military in 1909.

Soldier ATC banOmaha_Daily_Bee_Tue__Jul_20__1909_.jpg

[canjond]

Sorry for the late reply here. The Red Sun pack pictured above is mine. I only know of 2 period packs - the Red Sun above which is circa 1905 and pre-dates the cards, but was made by the same company (as it would be acquired by the ATC), and one that is period. However, the one that is period sold in an eBay auction probably 15 years ago to a buyer in China and I have no idea where it is now. I only have this relatively poor scan of it.

- Jon

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Pat R

It's amazing how powerful they actually were, it took the government 4 years to dissolve the monopoly that they had.

The government even placed a ban on ATC products in the military in 1909.

What's amazing is that they achieved so much economic power while apparently forgetting to pay off the Feds

[Brian Weisner]

Originally Posted by Pat R

I guess that I was the only one that was fascinated that the American Tobacco Company controlled 96% of the cigarette output in the world in 1910.

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Hey Pat,
Having grown up in Winston Salem… I assumed everyone knew how dominant ATC was during the time. Tobacco products built our city, state, and played a huge roll in rebuilding the South and the Nation after the Civil War.
It’s probably a lot more difficult to see today, as the anti smoking campaigns of the 1990’s raised awareness on the health risks and caused a decline in consumption. Congress also passed a number of laws curtailing the placement of advertising of tobacco products, which further decreased exposure and usage.
20 years ago… everyone knew Winston Salem, as the home of Reynolds Tobacco Co….I doubt most people under 30 have any idea the impact tobacco made on every facet of American life just a short time ago.

Be well Brian

PS I love reading the old articles… makes me remember all of those trips to the library stacks

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Pat R

I guess that I was the only one that was fascinated that the American Tobacco Company controlled 96% of the cigarette output in the world in 1910.

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Not at all the only one Pat. That is astounding that they were in control of that much of the domestic cigarette market. What does surprise me is that there had not been a run up in prices. Where else were people going to get their cigarettes/tobacco otherwise?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by BobC

Not at all the only one Pat. That is astounding that they were in control of that much of the domestic cigarette market. What does surprise me is that there had not been a run up in prices. Where else were people going to get their cigarettes/tobacco otherwise?

The illusion of competition, which may have kept them out of trouble for a while.

Plus, with so many different brands they could have different pricing tiers for what was actually the same product.

I would think that what was produced at say factory 30 was the same stuff in different paper tubes.


That's still done today. A friend worked on controls at a plant making vodka. They did 6 different brands, all from the same machine. Monday- Premium brand, Tuesday to Friday different brand each day less premium each day. Saturday, rotgut until the charcoal filters finally gave out. Sunday change the charcoal...

[BobC]

Originally Posted by steve B

The illusion of competition, which may have kept them out of trouble for a while.

Plus, with so many different brands they could have different pricing tiers for what was actually the same product.

I would think that what was produced at say factory 30 was the same stuff in different paper tubes.


That's still done today. A friend worked on controls at a plant making vodka. They did 6 different brands, all from the same machine. Monday- Premium brand, Tuesday to Friday different brand each day less premium each day. Saturday, rotgut until the charcoal filters finally gave out. Sunday change the charcoal...

That is a good point Steve, and well aware that that is still done today.

[cfc1909]

I find it interesting that T210 Series 6, 1, or 2 for example don't have any Fat Border cards

Series 2 T210 Old Mill Fat Border

[Brian Weisner]

Hey Jimmy,
Great card….. I always think of you when I see a Revelle…




Hope you and the family are well. B

[G1911]

From the surviving records, it seems the ATC was largely still operating on a low-cost methodology when Uncle Sam broke them up. Considering they owned or controlled over 90% of the market and high percentages of the market for components of tobacco products, distribution channels etc., it seems a little strange perhaps just how obsessed they were with that last 5-10% of the market out of their control. Their price cutting to drive out and make impossible the success of small companies probably wasn't creating more net profit at the end of the day than just leaving them be and selling some product a little bit higher would have.

They openly own a lot, and many other things are difficult to discern if the company is 1) technically independent and bullied by the ATC into doing what it wants or 2) a clandestine subsidiary kept off the books precisely because of the new anti-trust laws and the vagueness of enforcement in the early 20th century. Knapp's ALC seems to make extensive use of method 2 and less bullying, but the ATC seems to do both quite a bit.