OT: Ohtani

[Yoda]

I believe that Ichiro paved the way for Japanese players like Ohtani to move seamlessly into MLB. He proved that they can play at a very high level. He made it easier for those who followed.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I believe that Ichiro paved the way for Japanese players like Ohtani to move seamlessly into MLB. He proved that they can play at a very high level. He made it easier for those who followed.

So Hideo Nomo's ROY, most strikeouts in first three seasons of a career, leading each league in K's, and two no-hitters didn't do that???

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

So Hideo Nomo's ROY, most strikeouts in first three seasons of a career, leading each league in K's, and two no-hitters didn't do that???

Not on the same level as Ichiro. Not even close. No one even knows who Hideo Nomo is/was today. Ichiro is a household name.

[seanofjapan]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Not on the same level as Ichiro. Not even close. No one even knows who Hideo Nomo is/was today. Ichiro is a household name.

Career wise Nomo isn't on the same level as Ichiro but Nomo was the one who broke the barrier on the Japanese side which allowed NPB players to go to the US in the first place.

Ichiro (along with Shinjo) was the first position player to make the move to MLB so he is also quite important in that respect, but I don't think its fair to sell Nomo short (and Nomo was a household name at one point in the 90s for what it is worth).

[Tomi]

Does anyone know how many different rookie cards there are of Ohtani? I can't keep up with modern.

[GrewUpWithJunkWax]

Originally Posted by Tomi

Does anyone know how many different rookie cards there are of Ohtani? I can't keep up with modern.

I'm not ready to put in that kind of effort. And count both RC and RY classifications? I found this handy rundown https://www.beckett.com/news/shohei-...ie-card-guide/, which states "Inserts and parallels are not included."

I have a few Ohtani cards, nothing super rare, but a few for fun. He's really the only current player that has my interest.

Ichiro's 2025 Hall of Fame enshrinement will be great.

Nomo's instant success in 1995, as well as proving that a MLB career was possible, clearly sparked the interest in Japanese players.

And, then also need to have a 1965 Topps card of Masanori Murakami.

[Tomi]

Originally Posted by GrewUpWithJunkWax

I'm not ready to put in that kind of effort. And count both RC and RY classifications? I found this handy rundown https://www.beckett.com/news/shohei-...ie-card-guide/, which states "Inserts and parallels are not included."

I have a few Ohtani cards, nothing super rare, but a few for fun. He's really the only current player that has my interest.

Ichiro's 2025 Hall of Fame enshrinement will be great.

Nomo's instant success in 1995, as well as proving that a MLB career was possible, clearly sparked the interest in Japanese players.

And, then also need to have a 1965 Topps card of Masanori Murakami.

Yikes! I counted 61 rookie cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

Career wise Nomo isn't on the same level as Ichiro but Nomo was the one who broke the barrier on the Japanese side which allowed NPB players to go to the US in the first place.

Ichiro (along with Shinjo) was the first position player to make the move to MLB so he is also quite important in that respect, but I don't think its fair to sell Nomo short (and Nomo was a household name at one point in the 90s for what it is worth).

It's an unanswerable question, but I wonder sometimes what Oh would have done in MLB. Would he have been a star? His stats, not just the home runs but also the on base percentage due to a staggering number of walks, are off the charts.

[seanofjapan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's an unanswerable question, but I wonder sometimes what Oh would have done in MLB. Would he have been a star? His stats, not just the home runs but also the on base percentage due to a staggering number of walks, are off the charts.

I wonder that too. He would not have hit anywhere near 868 home runs in MLB (smaller stadium size, use of compressed bats definitely helped him in NPB), but at the same time I think he could very well have had a decent HOF career in the US if he had played there.

There are a few other NPB guys from his generation in that "What if" category. Isao Harimoto, Japan's career hits leader, is the most interesting. He is the only player in professional baseball history to literally have survived having a nuclear bomb dropped on him (as a child), and then went on to have a career that in many ways was even better than Oh's, though he isn't as well known outside of Japan.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Here’s my only Ohtani card, can’t believe that it has been sitting on eBay since last year in the $3,000’s and no buyer yet. I don’t think there is much better than his 2018 Topps Chrome rookie auto.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/33479385224...mis&media=COPY

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Not on the same level as Ichiro. Not even close. No one even knows who Hideo Nomo is/was today. Ichiro is a household name.

you're talking about fame. His post said Ichiro Paved the way. I would argue that Nomo paved the way for Ichiro and Matsui. He was the first Japanese player who proved they could compete at the top levels of MLB.

[steve B]

He seems to get so much right on field and off.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by steve B

He seems to get so much right on field and off.

Ha, that's awesome!

[hammertime]

Originally Posted by steve B

He seems to get so much right on field and off.

Agreed, he seems like a great person which makes it even easier to root for him. Kody Clemens (position player) struck him out last year and Ohtani signed the ball for him.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

So Hideo Nomo's ROY, most strikeouts in first three seasons of a career, leading each league in K's, and two no-hitters didn't do that???

Nomo had a no hitter in Colorado too i believe..


one issue is that Nomo was here first..so he has to get extra credit for that..

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Nomo had a no hitter in Colorado too i believe..


one issue is that Nomo was here first..so he has to get extra credit for that..

Totally agree, and in addition to the "extra credit" for coming first, I also think he LEGITEMATELY opened doors for the guys who immediately followed. Had Nomo been lit up as a rookie, lost his rotation spot, maybe been sent down, there's no doubt that at least some of the guys who followed would not have been given their opportunity.

I think it also totally changes things in Japan/Korea/etc. Having a Nomo type figure (and then Ichiro, Matsui, Daisuke, Darvish) to aspire towards is as important as anything for developing the next generation of players. Maybe today's guys develop and reach the MLB as they did without Nomo, but I think the initial progress of Asian players is probably at least delayed a few years without Nomo. And as a more extreme possibility without these icons, maybe fewer kids truly dedicate themselves so fully to baseball, like Ohtani.

Re- injury potential and Bo Jackson, I've thought of them in the same sentence too. However, I also think that if Ohtani fizzles out due to injury, he'll at minimum have a lasting legacy like Bo Jackson. Maybe not a HOFer, but the ultra bright shooting star people will be talking about for decades. And I also think if Ohtani lasts long enough to put up marginal even substandard HOF stats on both sides (maybe 300 HRs and 100 wins), he will make the HOF, no doubt in my mind.

[frankbmd]

HAM FIGHTERS never do well in the long run.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

HAM FIGHTERS never do well in the long run.

and cheesy at that...

[seanofjapan]

Team name is “Fighters”.

“Nippon Ham” is the team’s corporate owner.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

So Hideo Nomo's ROY, most strikeouts in first three seasons of a career, leading each league in K's, and two no-hitters didn't do that???

I think the general thoughts around baseball at the time, was that Japanese pitchers could be successful in MLB but Japanese hitters could never have the same success. Ichiro and Hideki Matsui changed that perception.

[packs]

I'm still not convinced on Nomo. He was obviously talented and had two great seasons to start his career but despite what everyone is saying I remember Nomo coming and going. When he came over it was huge news but the Yankees started their dynasty in 1996 and I don't remember a lot of Nomo talk after.

I would however say the situation was much different vis a vis Livan Hernandez. I think Cuban players owe a lot to Livan and their status in the game as prospective MLB stars was cemented when he came over and won the World Series and World Series MVP honors.

His brother was one of the most ruthless post season pitchers I've ever seen too. Orlando had ice in his veins.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by packs

I'm still not convinced on Nomo. He was obviously talented and had two great seasons to start his career but despite what everyone is saying I remember Nomo coming and going. When he came over it was huge news but the Yankees started their dynasty in 1996 and I don't remember a lot of Nomo talk after.

I would however say the situation was much different vis a vis Livan Hernandez. I think Cuban players owe a lot to Livan and their status in the game as prospective MLB stars was cemented when he came over and won the World Series and World Series MVP honors.

His brother was one of the most ruthless post season pitchers I've ever seen too. Orlando had ice in his veins.

I think Nomo hype being compared to the Yankee dynasty, or the first Cuban players is totally beside the point. It's not like anyone's arguing he was the biggest thing in all baseball, but he was huge in the Asian/Asian American community. And Nomo as a single pitcher who proved that Japanese players could be hugely valuable on MLB rosters is the main point. If there had been a perception pre-Nomo that Japanese could be successful, I think it's totally stunted if he doesn't actually succeed. And I think that also sets the hitters back.

BTW- Murakami isn't forgotten on me. He was a trailblazer for sure, but he supposedly got homesick and went back after his single MLB season. In turn, we didn't seen another Japanese player for 30 years. I think that's telling when it comes to importance of "the first". Had Murakami stuck around, broke into the rotation and had a 10+ year MLB career, I suspect many others would have followed much sooner.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

I think Nomo hype being compared to the Yankee dynasty, or the first Cuban players is totally beside the point. It's not like anyone's arguing he was the biggest thing in all baseball, but he was huge in the Asian/Asian American community. And Nomo as a single pitcher who proved that Japanese players could be hugely valuable on MLB rosters is the main point. If there had been a perception pre-Nomo that Japanese could be successful, I think it's totally stunted if he doesn't actually succeed. And I think that also sets the hitters back.

BTW- Murakami isn't forgotten on me. He was a trailblazer for sure, but he supposedly got homesick and went back after his single MLB season. In turn, we didn't seen another Japanese player for 30 years. I think that's telling when it comes to importance of "the first". Had Murakami stuck around, broke into the rotation and had a 10+ year MLB career, I suspect many others would have followed much sooner.

Maybe that is part of the difference, and possibly another reason Murakami left so quickly. He actually played in two different season, 1964 and 1965, but only had one start. He was basically used as a reliever, and sort of a closer. He actually ended up with 5-1 MLB record, and was credited with 9 saves. He had a not unrespectable 3.43 ERA and WHIP of 0.985, and a very respectable 100 SOs in only 89.1 innings pitched. Certainly wasn't a bust, and obviously had talent. A shame he didn't stick around so we could have seen how his career would have played out. And had he done so, it is quite possible that more Japanese players would have started coming over to play MLB, and/or more MLB teams would have gone over there looking for them, instead of it taking another 30 years or so before more Japanese players started coming.