Baseball Hall of Fame Rookie Cards Discussion

[Rhotchkiss]

Is this Thorpe’s rookie “card”?

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Is this Thorpe’s rookie “card”

Certainly.

[Exhibitman]

I simply disagree when it comes to team issues. The distinction is artificial. As is the distinction involving postcards, cabinet cards, newspaper issues and smaller premiums. The problem is that the stricter you are, the more issues get left out, until the exceptions swallow the rule. I mean, if the guy has multiple items that predate the 'rookie', sometimes by years, who cares what the 'rookie' is at that point? Let's take Joe DiMaggio as an example and set aside the three PCL issues (2 Zeenuts and the Pebble Beach Clothiers), which I think make the 'rookie' designation superfluous. What've we got?

--1936 World Wide Gum: can a card that was never issued in the country where MLB was played constitute an MLB rookie card? No American kid had a shot at one. That doesn't seem right to me.

--1936 R312-R313-R314: at least these are USA issues. But they are made of the same paper as team issues and were handed out as point of sale premiums.

--1936 Sports Stamps: paper and in a newspaper, but catalogued.

The first 'true American card' you get to is the 1938 Goudey.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I simply disagree when it comes to team issues. The distinction is artificial. As is the distinction involving postcards, cabinet cards, newspaper issues and smaller premiums. The problem is that the stricter you are, the more issues get left out, until the exceptions swallow the rule. I mean, if the guy has multiple items that predate the 'rookie', sometimes by years, who cares what the 'rookie' is at that point? Let's take Joe DiMaggio as an example and set aside the three PCL issues (2 Zeenuts and the Pebble Beach Clothiers), which I think make the 'rookie' designation superfluous. What've we got?

--1936 World Wide Gum: can a card that was never issued in the country where MLB was played constitute an MLB rookie card? No American kid had a shot at one. That doesn't seem right to me.

--1936 R312-R313-R314: at least these are USA issues. But they are made of the same paper as team issues and were handed out as point of sale premiums.

--1936 Sports Stamps: paper and in a newspaper, but catalogued.

The first 'true American card' you get to is the 1938 Goudey.

Adam, I agree, but if you slipped across the border in 1936, say from Detroit to Ontario, I bet you could find a pack of WWG.

[Shankweather]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Adam, I agree, but if you slipped across the border in 1936, say from Detroit to Ontario, I bet you could find a pack of WWG.

And even so, the point isn't really if Midwest kids in the 30s could find one, it's can we find one? In my opinion, 1936 WWG is DiMaggio's RC.

[Baseball Rarities]

Stephen - Interesting take and I am sure that you will get a lot of different answers.

I do not think that rarity should ever be a determining factor for rookie cards, especially when the set was available to the public like E107s.

I also think that your "#2 Random Distribution" rule should not come into play or else it will exclude N173 Old Judges cabinets, W600 Sporting Life cabinets, T3 Turkey Reds, etc.

[Shankweather]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

Stephen - Interesting take and I am sure that you will get a lot of different answers.

I do not think that rarity should ever be a determining factor for rookie cards, especially when the set was available to the public like E107s.

I also think that your "#2 Random Distribution" rule should not come into play or else it will exclude N173 Old Judges cabinets, W600 Sporting Life cabinets, T3 Turkey Reds, etc.

Old Judge cabinets and Turkey Reds are some of my favorite collectibles and I have several. But I purposefully exclude them from rookie card eligibility. They're just not baseball cards, they're too big and not randomly assorted. And further, we don't need them to be rookie cards. All of the players in N173 are in N172, and all of the players in T3 are in T206. All those players have rookie cards that look like baseball cards. It doesn't make the cabinets any less desirable. My N173 Cap Anson is one of my most prized possessions. But it's not a baseball card.

I'm definitely aware my take won't jive with a lot of others, particularly serious pre-war collectors. Part of my mission is to make pre-war collecting more palatable for modern collectors, with whom I interact a lot. And telling my fellow Cubs collectors that there are only half a dozen Frank Chance rookie cards in the world doesn't help.

That being said, my rule #4 is the least precious to me. I'm much more willing to call E107 a rookie card than M101-1. Large pieces of paper aren't baseball cards.