Is V153 really Canadian and V?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by toppcat

I believe dissolved means the company or corporation that was formed has been shut down but still exists until its business is wound up (debts paid, remaining capital distributed etc.). It was pretty common around WW1 and WW2, likely due to cash flow issues in many cases.

What's really tripping me up is the dual listing. Robertson Candy Co. also operated as the Roberston-Bradshaw Co. (I think this was the legal name for them, most of the advertising is Robertson Candy Co.). They have 2 entries, both at the same address of their storefront in the listing. It doesn't look like the business was actually dissolved, or that it reconstituted into a different entity for debt or tax purposes as the new entity had the same name, address and ownership/operators. I don't understand what this dual listing signifies

[toppcat]

It's almost like how comic and pulp publishers operated in the early days-each title was essentially published by a different company so an issue with one title (likely owing the distributor more than could be paid) didn't take down the larger concern. It would not surprise me if that's the case here.

[G1911]

That the companies have the exact same name, address and operators sounds odd to me, like it would be very difficult for them to argue in court that it is not the same company, as they haven't even tweaked the name slightly. I may just be misreading the records here.



Separate from the dissolution, some research on their business location to see if any connections can be established, or time lines clarified. I have yet to find a direct record of the cards, which I doubt exists.

Greenwich Street still exists, along the western side of Manhattan close to the shore. It looks like 286 isn't a valid address anymore, but that many of the buildings on this street are the old and tall brick businesses. Their store might still be standing under a different numbering scheme.

Robertson apparently did not have the building to themselves. In 1916 the H.C. Wetterau Co., "receives and delivers" eggs, cheeses and butters at the address, at the same time the Robertson Candy Company was still using it too. (https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover, page 1010).

A complicated court case I don't have the patience to read 1,000 pages of for this tiny footnote of card history has the Horace Frick machining company there in 1909, and shows they owned machinery there through at least 1912, when Roberston Candy Co. was also there. (https://books.googleusercontent.com/...Ex_CwjMrNWuVRw)

In 1914 a W.T. Wheeler had his yacht registered to this address, again when Robertson Candy Co. was using it still. (https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover)

A 1901 (pre-Robertson) report of the Committee on Fire Patrol says it was a five story brick building (which sounds exactly like how many of the buildings on this street today look like on Google) and has it occupied by 2 businesses. The other businesses on the street were 3-7 story brick (https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover)

In 1909, the Crown Sweets Co. is listed by the Health Department as being at the 286 address, just before Robertson Candy seems to have been founded. Robertson may be descended from this company, or took over a previous manufacturer and retailers confectionary space and equipment. https://www.google.com/books/edition...J?hl=en&gbpv=0

[G1911]

A question this time, rather than an update. When was this set actually termed V153 at all? I decided to double check how it is labelled today. I have a copy of the 1956 American Card Catalog, which ends the numbering in the V100's sequence at V152. V150, Robertson Candy's Jockey series discussed in this thread as well, is present. Burdick evidently did believe then that Robertson Candy was a Canadian product as V150 and V153 have to be catalogued with the same nation, but it appears that as late as 1956 he did not know about the prize fighters at all. The MET inventory records cards up to V154 in album 336.

Would anybody be kind enough to check 1957 and later editions of the ACC if they have one?

[Pat R]

Greg, I did find a little information in old newspapers that might be helpful.

Like you I didn't find any Robertson Candy Co. in Canada from the correct timeframe but there were a few ads for a Robertson's candy in Canadian newspapers in 1909.

Robertson's CandyThe_Victoria_Daily_Times_Wed__Dec_22__1909_.jpg

Robertson's The_Ottawa_Citizen_Thu__Dec_23__1909_.jpg

I found several ads/clippings for Robertson Candy Co. in New York papers here's one from 1909 and one from 1918

Robertson Candy New_York_Tribune_Wed__Sep_22__1909_.jpg

Robertson Candy Co.The_Evening_World_Fri__Dec_20__1918_.jpg

I only found one ad for Robertson-Bradshaw it was from 1918 and it was in a New York paper

Robertson-Bradshaw New_York_Tribune_Fri__Oct_4__1918_.jpg


What I found on the Crown Sweets is interesting, I found this in the New York Times from 1908

Crown Sweets The_New_York_Times_Fri__Feb_28__1908_.jpg

and I found this in the New York Times from 1910 where Bradshaw filed a suit against Crown Sweets

Crown Sweets The_New_York_Times_Sun__Aug_21__1910_ (1).jpg

While I was researching I also found where an individual had a case in supreme court against Bradshaw but I didn't save it and I couldn't find it again.

I found it, I'm not sure if it's the same Edward Bradshaw but it's a clipping from the Buffalo Courier December 20 1911.

Buffalo_Courier_Wed__Dec_20__1911_.jpg

[G1911]

Thank you Pat! This fits in with what else has surfaced. The
"Robertson's Candy" product is presumably from Robertson Bros., the much larger candy firm and in Canada. It is also possible that some of Robertson Candy Co.'s product was also sold in Canada. Or that there was, indeed, a similarly obscure Robertson Candy Co. that was in Canada during this time and will eventually surface. I think it unlikely now, but it is possible.

It is interesting the Hudson-Fulton fund piece lists Robertson Candy Co. and Bradshaw & Co. The Bradshaw of Crown Sweets and Robertson and Robertson & Bradshaw?

Bradshaw suing Crown, which previously to Robertson Candy Co. was one of the occupants of the same Grenwich building, is interesting. Roberston takes over the office space and takes one of their managing directors around this time. Not sure if it will ever matter to the cards but there is some story here.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by G1911

A question this time, rather than an update. When was this set actually termed V153 at all? I decided to double check how it is labelled today. I have a copy of the 1956 American Card Catalog, which ends the numbering in the V100's sequence at V152. V150, Robertson Candy's Jockey series discussed in this thread as well, is present. Burdick evidently did believe then that Robertson Candy was a Canadian product as V150 and V153 have to be catalogued with the same nation, but it appears that as late as 1956 he did not know about the prize fighters at all. The MET inventory records cards up to V154 in album 336.

Would anybody be kind enough to check 1957 and later editions of the ACC if they have one?

I have been shown that the 1960 ACC lists V153; so Burdick didn't know about these until between 1957-1960 and then added them in.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by G1911

That the companies have the exact same name, address and operators sounds odd to me, like it would be very difficult for them to argue in court that it is not the same company, as they haven't even tweaked the name slightly. I may just be misreading the records here.

The car dealership I worked for was actually something like 5 companies.
Sales
Parts
service
Bodyshop
Rentals

The only one that wasn't in the same building was the body shop, which was next door. But they used the same office.

Something about moving money around to soften the "look" of profits and losses. (and yes, it was probably at least a little shady)

[G1911]

No further research success, but finally picked up the jockey that's been lingering on eBay, so I have a Robertson's in hand now. Can't imagine doing these as full sets, that's got to be a brutal search