Moonlight Graham

[Snapolit1]

No backlash here. I hear you and loud and clear. I have one Graham piece and it's very cool, but his fame is a fictional character and not as an actual ballplayer.
Personally I would not spend thousands on a Graham item. But I get the allure also.


QUOTE=BillyCoxDodgers3B;2314315]I've said it before, and it's always met with some backlash...

The huge interest, and especially the high values of anything related to Graham, will never fail to confound me.

People who are so enamored of him do realize that they're just buying into a half-fictional character as created by Kinsella and portrayed so wonderfully by (mostly) Burt Lancaster, right? Values of our collectibles are usually based on achievements or legends that actually transpired or may have happened. There's some basis in reality. The Moonlight Graham stuff that people so eagerly eat up simply sprang from the mind of an author of fiction. Beyond the fact Graham played in the Majors and was a doctor in Chisholm, MN, the rest is all Kinsella. The factual part of Graham's story is pretty typical and ho-hum. Yes, he was a kindly doctor and was remembered fondly by generations of children, but this wouldn't have affected collectability or value without Kinsella's intervention.

If Kinsella had thumbed through his MacMillan Encyclopedia and instead decided to craft a story around Kewpie Pennington, another Deadball Era guy who played in one game, none of the Graham diehards would have a clue who he was and his memorabilia would be of much more limited interest and value. Pennington had a cool nickname and only pitched one MLB inning with zero strikeouts. There's your story! "If only I could have struck one player out!". Same basic concept of a dream not realized, but now everyone is infatuated with the fictional legend of Kewpie Pennington!

I know, I know...but it was Moonlight Graham who Kinsella selected.[/QUOTE]

[Casey2296]

Thanks a lot...

Now I'm on a Kewpie Pennington hunt.

[abothebear]

My neighbor was a pitcher in the Brewers organization. He got called up to the big team once, during September call-ups, but never got into a game. I don’t ask him about it.

[seattlerainiers]

Here he is again, back row, hatless.

[JollyElm]

The ears don't match...

moonlightgrahamcomp.jpg

[Bicem]

Incredible Dave, that's my favorite Moonlight piece.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Thanks a lot...

Now I'm on a Kewpie Pennington hunt.

He has a 1919 Zeenut card. Just sayin'

Brian

[brianp-beme]

The prior post about the Zeenut of Pennington reminded me of my post almost three years ago, pasted below, which surprisingly showed/revealed the six 1911 Obak cards of players who only appeared in a single MLB game.

Phil Cooney - 1905 New York Yankees 3 AB
Lee 'Flame' Delhi - 1912 White Sox 3 IP
Monty Pyfl - 1907 Giants 1 PA
Hunky Shaw - 1908 Pirates 1 AB
Dave Skeels - 1910 Tigers 6 IP
Con Starkel - 1906 Senators 3 IP

Brian

[seattlerainiers]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

The prior post about the Zeenut of Pennington reminded me of my post almost three years ago, pasted below, which surprisingly showed/revealed the six 1911 Obak cards of players who only appeared in a single MLB game.

Phil Cooney - 1905 New York Yankees 3 AB
Lee 'Flame' Delhi - 1912 White Sox 3 IP
Monty Pyfl - 1907 Giants 1 PA
Hunky Shaw - 1908 Pirates 1 AB
Dave Skeels - 1910 Tigers 6 IP
Con Starkel - 1906 Senators 3 IP

Brian

One of my favorite real photo postcard pairings includes two of these fellows, Hunky and Phil. 1912 Spokane Indians, Northwestern League. Taken at Dugdale Park in Seattle. Love their road uniforms.

[rhettyeakley]

Dave, i love that 2nd postcard you posted with the players goofing around (especially Phil Cooney). Cool to see a candid shot of Native American William Cadreau, who played in the Majors briefly under the name Chief Chouneau. Probably the best images of him I have ever seen.

[brianp-beme]

Those are really awesome Spokane team postcard photos Dave, and I love the team shot with Moonlight Graham, who just seemed to know he should keep his cap off to make himself easier to pick out 100+ years later.

Brian

[Tripp Trapp]

A ca. 1906 Scranton Minors pre-linen PC. Might the good ol’ doc be in right field?! The closest I’ll ever get to owning anything “Moonlight” related!

[piecesofthegame]

Just getting around to reading this thread. I, too, am fascinated by the divide between those obsessed with Graham memorabilia and those who could care less. As an antique auto collector, I often relate sports to the car hobby.

When trying to grasp the Graham hype, think of the Delorean. The Delorean was a rather futuristic car when released but ultimately turned out to be a hunk of junk by a new car company that went down in flames. (Google John Delorean if you don’t know the story.) Nonetheless, if you were 7 years old when you saw Back to the Future like I was, it left an indelible mark on your childhood. To this day, when I see one, it evokes the feelings of seeing that movie and being mesmerized by the car. I would love to own one someday. The car collector in me knows it’s a hunk of junk, but the kid in me loves the memories it evokes.

For those who love Graham and his story, I’m sure he evokes the same emotions of watching the movie, and perhaps even falling in love with baseball nostalgia.
For those who are purely collectors, he’s a nobody who played an inning and should be valued accordingly.
Just my two cents!

[Snapolit1]

Collecting is all about irrational attachments to material things. I don't see how an obsession with chasing a Moonlight Graham card is any different that chasing Eddie Plank or King Kelly or 1000s of other players who have no larger cultural significance today. Something speaks you or it doesn't. To chase tobacco cards of obscure players and then obscure backs of tobacco cards of obscure players makes no more "sense" to me than trying to chase a phone book from Chisholm, MN that has Graham listed in it.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

No backlash here. I hear you and loud and clear. I have one Graham piece and it's very cool, but his fame is a fictional character and not as an actual ballplayer.
Personally I would not spend thousands on a Graham item. But I get the allure also.


QUOTE=BillyCoxDodgers3B;2314315]I've said it before, and it's always met with some backlash...

The huge interest, and especially the high values of anything related to Graham, will never fail to confound me.

People who are so enamored of him do realize that they're just buying into a half-fictional character as created by Kinsella and portrayed so wonderfully by (mostly) Burt Lancaster, right? Values of our collectibles are usually based on achievements or legends that actually transpired or may have happened. There's some basis in reality. The Moonlight Graham stuff that people so eagerly eat up simply sprang from the mind of an author of fiction. Beyond the fact Graham played in the Majors and was a doctor in Chisholm, MN, the rest is all Kinsella. The factual part of Graham's story is pretty typical and ho-hum. Yes, he was a kindly doctor and was remembered fondly by generations of children, but this wouldn't have affected collectability or value without Kinsella's intervention.

If Kinsella had thumbed through his MacMillan Encyclopedia and instead decided to craft a story around Kewpie Pennington, another Deadball Era guy who played in one game, none of the Graham diehards would have a clue who he was and his memorabilia would be of much more limited interest and value. Pennington had a cool nickname and only pitched one MLB inning with zero strikeouts. There's your story! "If only I could have struck one player out!". Same basic concept of a dream not realized, but now everyone is infatuated with the fictional legend of Kewpie Pennington!

I know, I know...but it was Moonlight Graham who Kinsella selected.

[/QUOTE]Well articulated and duly noted. But, for me, part of the fun of collecting is being able to show some of my cards to non-collectors, and Moonlight would be a great one to show.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

Well articulated and duly noted. But, for me, part of the fun of collecting is being able to show some of my cards to non-collectors, and Moonlight would be a great one to show.

Thank you. I'm happy to see many great responses to my thoughts versus the first time I mentioned anything years ago!

I fully agree with your point above, Al. The character of Moonlight Graham is someone that many people are familiar with, so sharing the real Graham's memorabilia would be of more interest to non-fans and non-collectors alike. You can also explain this entire backstory as we've been discussing: the real Graham and the magical, fictitious Graham.

For those that collect Graham's memorabilia (and we all know you're invested into it directly because of the book, the movie or both! ), it would make sense to also collect Burt Lancaster and W.P. Kinsella memorabilia. They are the ones that should truly be thanked for your fandom of the actual Archibald Graham and without whom you'd have never fallen for Moonlight memorabilia!

[seattlerainiers]

Thanks, Rhett and Brian. It is fun to share those cards.

Here's another RPPC (rare panoramic this time) of the 1912 Spokane squad. Here's the players I can immediately recognize. I could likely ID more if I spend some time with it:

Phil Cooney: far right
Dutch Altman: 2nd from right
Cadreau/Conneau: 6th from right
Harry Ostdiek: 8th from right
Lloyd Zimmerman: 5th from left
Paul Strand: 2nd from left

Interestingly, If you look at the 4th and 5th players from right, next to Cadreau, they also appear to be of Native American heritage. Looking at the 1912 Spokane Indians roster on BR and/or Stats Crew, none of those names jump out at me as candidates.

Seems like a stretch to think they came to Spokane with Cadreau from the Fond du Lac Band of the Lake Superior Ojibwe in northeastern Minnesota. Been meaning to get a hold of a few folks I know that might provide insight, but haven't gotten to it.

Anyways, I love this card too. Sorry to briefly hijack the thread away from Moonlight!

[brianp-beme]

You can't throw shade on Moonlight...he casts his own glow. Another great postcard Dave.

Brian

[ksfarmboy]

Dave those are amazing!