Is V153 really Canadian and V?

[RCMcKenzie]

Interesting stuff to think about. I think Anson said he was using PSA's issue dates. I agree that PSA does not know.

I would think Robertson would have copied the design of American Caramel, or maybe used with permission, and agree Robertson would have to have been a later or concurrent issue.

[G1911]

Bradshaw was the director of Crown Sweets Co. in 1908 according to the Trow corporate directory (https://www.google.com/books/edition...J?hl=en&gbpv=0). He seems to be career candy man.

The 1919 edition of Trows has two listings for Robertson Candy Co., one dissolved. Not clear on what that means exactly https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover

They were apparently so small time that even when placing paid ads, their name was sometimes got wrong. The Spatula calls them the “Robinson Candy Company”, contrary to the sign off even, at the end of 1918 (https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover, 154)

Bradshaw was apparently the candy man running the business. Robertson presumably provided the capital.

By June of 1923 they have moved to 31 Jay St, advertising that their fruit tables “prevents the taking in of much dust” when driving cars. (https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover, 322). They were at the 286 Greenwich Street address into 1919 at least.


Bradshaw has some popping corn patents, and seems to be doing other things by November of 1921, when advertisements for his own companies popcorn run adjacent to Robertson advertisements in the Confectioners Journal (https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover - November, 2). He might still be working with Robertson to. For baseball collectors, one page above the Robertson and Bradshaw ads, is one for the Croft & Allen Co. showing a drawing of their buildings in Philadelphia (November, 1).

They seem to fade from visibility after 1923 or so.


I found in Canada a Robertson Bros. Ltd. firm in the confectionary candy space, from the 19th century into the 1920’s at least in the Toronto area. They always seem to go by Robertson Bros. or Robertson Brothers, never once “Robertson Candy Co.” or something close to that beyond also having a “Robertson” own it. This firm was a larger operation and its founding brother wealthy Scottish immigrants. There are numerous advertisements, columns, press reports, journal articles and biographical entries of its founders easily found. I think this is not our company either, like the later Robertson Candy Co. in Canada that existed in Burdick’s day but not when the cards were issued, and has the wrong name. It is another possible explanation for how the Canadian origin was placed onto the cards though, as it is similar sounding.

Still cannot find a "Robertson Candy Co." or "Robertson Candy" in Canada during the period the cards are apparently from.

[toppcat]

I believe dissolved means the company or corporation that was formed has been shut down but still exists until its business is wound up (debts paid, remaining capital distributed etc.). It was pretty common around WW1 and WW2, likely due to cash flow issues in many cases.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by toppcat

I believe dissolved means the company or corporation that was formed has been shut down but still exists until its business is wound up (debts paid, remaining capital distributed etc.). It was pretty common around WW1 and WW2, likely due to cash flow issues in many cases.

What's really tripping me up is the dual listing. Robertson Candy Co. also operated as the Roberston-Bradshaw Co. (I think this was the legal name for them, most of the advertising is Robertson Candy Co.). They have 2 entries, both at the same address of their storefront in the listing. It doesn't look like the business was actually dissolved, or that it reconstituted into a different entity for debt or tax purposes as the new entity had the same name, address and ownership/operators. I don't understand what this dual listing signifies

[toppcat]

It's almost like how comic and pulp publishers operated in the early days-each title was essentially published by a different company so an issue with one title (likely owing the distributor more than could be paid) didn't take down the larger concern. It would not surprise me if that's the case here.

[G1911]

That the companies have the exact same name, address and operators sounds odd to me, like it would be very difficult for them to argue in court that it is not the same company, as they haven't even tweaked the name slightly. I may just be misreading the records here.



Separate from the dissolution, some research on their business location to see if any connections can be established, or time lines clarified. I have yet to find a direct record of the cards, which I doubt exists.

Greenwich Street still exists, along the western side of Manhattan close to the shore. It looks like 286 isn't a valid address anymore, but that many of the buildings on this street are the old and tall brick businesses. Their store might still be standing under a different numbering scheme.

Robertson apparently did not have the building to themselves. In 1916 the H.C. Wetterau Co., "receives and delivers" eggs, cheeses and butters at the address, at the same time the Robertson Candy Company was still using it too. (https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover, page 1010).

A complicated court case I don't have the patience to read 1,000 pages of for this tiny footnote of card history has the Horace Frick machining company there in 1909, and shows they owned machinery there through at least 1912, when Roberston Candy Co. was also there. (https://books.googleusercontent.com/...Ex_CwjMrNWuVRw)

In 1914 a W.T. Wheeler had his yacht registered to this address, again when Robertson Candy Co. was using it still. (https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover)

A 1901 (pre-Robertson) report of the Committee on Fire Patrol says it was a five story brick building (which sounds exactly like how many of the buildings on this street today look like on Google) and has it occupied by 2 businesses. The other businesses on the street were 3-7 story brick (https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover)

In 1909, the Crown Sweets Co. is listed by the Health Department as being at the 286 address, just before Robertson Candy seems to have been founded. Robertson may be descended from this company, or took over a previous manufacturer and retailers confectionary space and equipment. https://www.google.com/books/edition...J?hl=en&gbpv=0

[G1911]

A question this time, rather than an update. When was this set actually termed V153 at all? I decided to double check how it is labelled today. I have a copy of the 1956 American Card Catalog, which ends the numbering in the V100's sequence at V152. V150, Robertson Candy's Jockey series discussed in this thread as well, is present. Burdick evidently did believe then that Robertson Candy was a Canadian product as V150 and V153 have to be catalogued with the same nation, but it appears that as late as 1956 he did not know about the prize fighters at all. The MET inventory records cards up to V154 in album 336.

Would anybody be kind enough to check 1957 and later editions of the ACC if they have one?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by G1911

That the companies have the exact same name, address and operators sounds odd to me, like it would be very difficult for them to argue in court that it is not the same company, as they haven't even tweaked the name slightly. I may just be misreading the records here.

The car dealership I worked for was actually something like 5 companies.
Sales
Parts
service
Bodyshop
Rentals

The only one that wasn't in the same building was the body shop, which was next door. But they used the same office.

Something about moving money around to soften the "look" of profits and losses. (and yes, it was probably at least a little shady)